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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another woman killed by her ex violent shit of a partner.

424 replies

sundayrose10 · 07/06/2011 01:56

It's just so tragic and I feel so angry at another senseless death on a woman by a scum. It's well known leaving an abusive partner is the most dangerous time...why don't the police do more?

It is too sad for words. How can the surviving child even begin to get through something like that?

From the daily fail. I can't link so copied and pasted.

100 threats to kill: Mother handed police texts days before ex-partner gunned down her and their little girl

Shotgun shoved in child's mouth just moments before murders
Watchdog probes claims police knew of volatile situation between parents
A terrified mother handed police 100 menacing text messages from her crazed ex-partner days before he shot her and their two-year-old dead.
Chrissie Chambers, 38, made a formal statement to officers last week about David Oakes?s repeated threats to kill her during a bitter row over access to their daughter.
Nothing was done and yesterday morning Oakes killed Miss Chambers and young Shania in their home.

The killer also shoved his shotgun into the mouth of Shania?s half sister, Chelsea, who saved her life by fleeing through a window and on to the kitchen roof.
Her mother had urged the ten-year-old to ?run, run, save yourself while you can?.
Last night an inquiry was launched by the Independent Police Complaints Commission after it emerged that officers had been called to the house a number of times over the past two years,
It was also claimed that Oakes was subjected to a non-molestation order that prevented him from coming within 100 yards of her.
Stuart Flitt, 26, who is a half brother to Chelsea, said police had been given warning after warning.
?The last time she made a statement was on Thursday ? she was making statements to the police all week,? he said.
?She gave police over 100 text messages but they never took her seriously.
?These texts threatened to kill her ? I had been staying round there for her own safety.?
A close friend of the family said: ?The police said to her ?We cannot do anything until something happens to you?. She was scared ? she sobbed her heart out to me on Friday. This should not have happened.
?The police were in the wrong and they knew about this weeks ago.?

Unemployed Oakes, 50, was under police guard in hospital last night with non life-threatening injuries after turning the gun on himself at the end of a two-hour stand-off at the semi-detached house in Braintree, Essex.
Chelsea?s father, Ian Flitt, said he was woken in the early hours of yesterday morning by Chelsea who was banging on his door.
The 50-year-old said: ?She started screaming ?He is there at the house with a gun? and ?He has put it into Chrissie?s mouth?.?
Oakes killed his former partner before turning the gun on Shania. Chelsea climbed through the window on to the kitchen roof, before dropping ten feet to the ground below and running half a mile barefoot in her nightgown to her father?s house. ?If he was prepared to shoot his own daughter, he would have shot her,? he said.
Oakes, who has been described as an ?abusive, jealous woman hater?, embarked on his killing spree hours before a court appearance over the custody of Shania.
He and Miss Chambers had been together for six years before they split seven weeks ago.
She had had a ten-year relationship with Mr Flitt and they had three children, Levi 16, Guy, 11, and Chelsea, who lived with her and Shania.

Assistant Chief Constable Gary Beautridge of Essex Police said: ?We have had two years of contact between him [Oakes] and the family and as part of the investigation there will be a full and fundamental review of the circumstances of this contact.?
Amid dramatic scenes outside her house yesterday, a distraught man shouted at officers: ?You knew this was going to happen, you could have stopped it.?

Donna Garrod, 20, said Oakes, who is understood to have been a drug dealer, had been violent toward Miss Chambers for years.
?One time he kidnapped Shania and police had to escort Christine to his caravan to get her back,? she said. ?I have seen her with bruises, a black eye and a broken nose.
?The police knew what was going on. I was there most times when the police came round. She had been calling them for two weeks.?
Karran Tomlinson, 35, said she had lived next to Miss Chambers for four years and had heard many violent rows during that time ? including threats from Oakes to kill Shania.
She said: ?Dave was a nasty piece of work. He had been beating her up for years. I think she was just too scared to leave him.
?She finally found the courage to leave him seven weeks ago and now this has happened.?
Police managed to enter the house at around 5.45am, and arrested Oakes who was taken to Broomfield Hospital, in Chelmsford. Last night a life-long friend of Oakes said he had terrorised women for more than 20 years because of his uncontrollable jealously. The woman, who asked not to be named, said: ?As soon as I heard I knew it had to be David.
?He has a vicious temper and is not a man to be crossed.?

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 09/06/2011 10:30

LadyBlahBlah yes definitely it can happen to anybody. Absolutely. I do think there are different reasons people can get sucked in or don't see the warning signs, though. (Often as I said before because the warning signs themselves are difficult to spot)

dittany · 09/06/2011 10:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thumbwitch · 09/06/2011 10:57

LadyBlahbla - I agree with you. While my relationship was in no way as bad as some of the people on here, and perhaps I am therefore less qualified to comment, as it were - I can also attest to the fact that there was no abuse in my childhood. But there were levels of EA in my ex's childhood - and I knew about these and made excuses for him based on those.

I also believe that there is no one "type" of woman who gets caught out by these nasty bastards - some of them do target supposedly vulnerable women, but others prefer the challenge of a feisty, professional, self-sufficient woman (like I used to be). I for one wasn't desperate for a relationship - I am quite happy to be by myself and don't fit a pattern of going out with anyone "just to be with someone".

From what I read about Erin Pizzey's fall from grace (and she came on MN a few months back, possibly even a year ago when she was being slated), it involved her blaming the women in the abuse situations, saying that in some cases they were as bad as the men. In some cases, the women courted the violence; in others, they were as violent as the men themselves. It isn't that simplistic either - DV can happen to anyone if they are with someone who believes that they have a "right" to hit them.

LadyBlaBlah · 09/06/2011 17:17

That thread Dittany has linked to is truly shocking.

CrapolaDeVille · 09/06/2011 17:21

What a crying shame that Erin turned out to be so damaging to the cause.

MrsDrOwenHunt · 09/06/2011 18:08

i got out before the dv got to bad and mainly due to support from the wonderful women on here, theurbandryad rescued me quite literally and sqounk organised a thread where wonderful wonderful mumsnetters sent me clothes and stuff for me and ds, when i moved into our little flat, misdee although being heavily pregnant and just having all the trauma of peter brought me a bed (i still have it!) and her ds gave me a bed for ds, mamazon was an inspiration to me, i am nearly three years on now, still single and now have seen ds grow to be a happy little boy, i shudder to think what would have happened to me without support from here, i am so sorry for u ladies that still go thru this and a campaign would be a great idea on here x

babyhammock · 09/06/2011 18:20

Its difficult to understand all the reasons why. I do think if your self esteem is conditioned to accept abuse then its more likely that you're more vulnerable to these men.. but as Lady Blahblah demonstrates, it really can happen to anyone.

I would outwardly appear to be very confident, independant and all that.

But when I was in the depths of abuse with my ex and struggling to understand how anyone could behave the way he did, I came across NPD. Yes exP did have traits of this, but it described my dad to a tee. I also couldn't understand why I had put up with so much, even before I had DS (things got a whole lot worse once I was pregnant) and wondered if it was because I was already used to alot of it from childhood... alot of which i had forgotten and just never thought about.

Argh I dunno.. but yes it can happen to anyone.. these men can be incredibly manipulative.

I also read up on trauma bonding recently.. and yes, that makes alot of sense too.

The Lundy book was brilliant I thought. Made me realise I wasn't going mad.

Thanks BertieBotts :)

garlicbutter · 09/06/2011 18:23

How wonderful, MrsDrOwenHunt :)

Lovely post, babyhammock.

Mumofaflump · 09/06/2011 18:26

Another vote here for DV to be the subject of the next Mumsnet campaign.

MrsDrOwenHunt · 09/06/2011 18:27

babyhammock

aliceliddell · 09/06/2011 19:10

mumofa - definitely agree with that. The police response to christine Chambers was on a par with Stephen Lawrence if not worse. Institutional sexism must be stopped. Christine and Shania - never again.

babyhammock · 09/06/2011 19:55

I don't think you can underestimate the power of this to help people in these situations. You get so isolated from your friends and often the ones you have left don't understand. Its very hard to really get it unless you've been through it.

Even just being on this thread and listening to others talk and the responses to it are making me feel stronger and not so alone.

Back at you MrsDrOwnenHunt and garlicbutter :)

LadyBlaBlah · 09/06/2011 20:50

I too would really like DV to be a MN campaign - the knowledge and understanding that people on here have about the subject is breathtaking. While the stories of how the police deal with DV is simply horrific and criminal in itself.

H is on an apologetic mission atm and has taken the DC away for a couple of nights and I cannot describe the feeling of peace I have tonight. Smile Women all over are living like this, in fear and 'on eggshells' thinking it is normal and acceptable. I really wish they weren't.

SybilBeddows · 09/06/2011 21:01

AliceLiddell's post below, 'The police response to Christine Chambers was on a par with Stephen Lawrence if not worse. Institutional sexism must be stopped. Christine and Shania - never again.'

said it all. I'm going to put it as my FB status, anyone want to join me?

and anyone on Twitter want to get it going? (is it few enough characters? I don't use Twitter)

LadyBlaBlah · 09/06/2011 21:06

I will put on my FB status, yes

I imagine no men will 'like' it (or maybe I have become a cynic about all men unfairly)

SybilBeddows · 09/06/2011 21:18

I'm rapidly becoming more and more cynical about The Man In The Street who I think really doesn't give a shit - my lovely dh however gets very outraged about men doing horrible stuff and getting away with it. (Just as you would expect most reasonable men to, I really don't get why they don't.)

sunshineandbooks · 09/06/2011 21:35

If you knew me in real life, you would think I was one of the least likely women ever to get abused by a man. I have always been 'strong', independent, successful, plenty of friends, decidedly ungooey about romance and I came from a happy home where there wasn't even a hint of DV. Yet it still happened to me.

In my case it started off with housework (not pulling his share). Can you imagine the outcry on here if I advised every woman on here to leave her DH if he doesn't pull his weight about the house? (Doesn't stop me doing so though Grin)

You're making a mistake if you think all abuse is overt. It's not. It's incredibly subtle. My XP would look all contrite and completely agree with me when I tackled him about it. He would promise to do more. Then not do it. It's infuriating but he never once raised his voice or gor aggressive. I was the one who'd lose my temper over it first. This would then be used to get me on the back foot, feeling bad and that I somehow ought to be making it up to him. There's your opening for the next instalment.

Can you see now how insidious it is? The really clever abusers are ones who never lay a finger on you. They are so skilled in the art of psychological warfare that they can manipulate you in their sleep, they never shout and you're not even aware it's happening to you. Everything they do can be backed up with an extremely plausible explanation and I can guarantee you that if you posted what they'd done on here you'd have hundreds of posters saying you were being unreasonable for having a go at him about it.

My abuse started in pregnancy, so that even when I started to see through it, I was constantly doubting myself wondering if it was 'hormones'. Actually I posted on a different forum about it at the time and was told that I was 'just hormonal' and that I would be 'idiotic' to leave a man over some washing up. Few people seem to realise that housework is actually a great barometer of a man's level of respect for you.

I left four months after giving birth when I gave him an ultimatum and he tried to strangle me. Up until that point, not a finger had been laid on me. Would you like me to tell you about hard it was to leave a house that wasn't in my name so that I had nowhere to go with four-month-old DTs in tow? Asking any woman to make herself voluntarily homeless with no possessions when she's got DC (of any age) to consider as well is a very tall order indeed and explains why so many don't go.

Far better to get these * men to leave AND KEEP THEM AWAY.

FWIW I found the police very good indeed. It's the law and the courts that need changing, along with public attitudes towards DV.

babyhammock · 09/06/2011 22:03

Too true sunshine. It demonstrates their sense of entitlement and where they see you in the pecking order.

And what's all that about not being able to work the cooker or the washing machine.... they can drive can't they. But still we buy into it... well I did. I wouldn't again x

mathanxiety · 09/06/2011 23:03

Sunshineandbooks, fwiw, well done, and to you too MrsDr. I also have a high regard for the police that I have had dealings with, but it seems that there are still some forces or even individual stations where a non-responsive culture flourishes.

I think the courts are definitely the arena where it all starts to go tits up for women who are victims of DV, especially where there are so-called 'father's rights' (execrable phrase) involved. They have too high a regard for themselves and their position in handing out non-mol orders and the like, but are living a long way from reality when it comes to providing real assurance to women about personal safety or the financial responsibilities of the abusers. They also tend to accord too much importance to the rights of fathers imo, and this often has the effect of tying a woman to her abuser until a child attains majority. This often amounts to a sentence of many years' torment for a mother.

ilovesprouts · 09/06/2011 23:08

how many more poor women .. in fact a girl local to me just been stabbed to death i also fear for my dd as her bf an arse too spat in her face today Angry

thumbwitch · 09/06/2011 23:26

Math, what you said just reminded me of a work colleague of mine's sister. She was married to a policeman, so had no police redress for her situation. He was horrible to her, marital rape etc. and they had 2 boys. She was far from her family, had no money or ability to get away from him - but when the boys were I think 9and 12 (or thereabouts) she divorced her H so he no longer had any marital "rights". They continued to live in the same house but different rooms and they didn't tell their sons until the younger one left for University, when they split properly. The boys were furious. Furious that she had lived a lie for so many years, on their account. Furious that she hadn't actually left when she divorced him (presumably they didn't have a great relationship with their father either). It caused a problem for some time, resolved now - but the atmosphere in that house must have been appalling. The parents didn't speak to each other after the divorce (tbh, I'm not entirely sure why he stayed and put up with it either!) but to me it demonstrates that there are worse things than leaving.

Of course every situation is different - she was lucky in that the DV stopped when they divorced - others don't have that fortune and she could have been seriously hurt/killed after divorcing him, so I'm not suggesting it as an option. In fact, judging by their sons' reaction, it was definitely not a good idea - but she did the best she could at the time.

I think a MN campaign re. the crap attitudes to DV would be an excellent idea. Ilovesprouts, :(. Hope your DD decides to leave the scumbag.

BTW, does anyone know what happened with that poster who got pushed down the stairs by her pg DD's scumbag partner? The DD had a termination and the police were being a bit dilatory about the whole assault thing - anyone know the outcome? I know she was a namechanger and I can't remember the name she used for the thread Blush

ilovesprouts · 09/06/2011 23:28

no shes still with him she lovessss him ffs i hate him hes alrady had his hands on her and shook my grandson in his highchair Angry

thumbwitch · 09/06/2011 23:45

Argh! I feel for you ilovesprouts - so hard to stand by and watch it happen to someone and not be able to open their eyes to their peril. :(

wubblybubbly · 10/06/2011 07:45

So sorry Ilovesprouts. I have no legal advice. It must be hell for a mother to witness her child go through this.

Could you contact Woman's Aid for advice maybe?

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