to want to apologise to the travellers camping across the road?

[nethunsreject]

I live in a quiet village. Half a dozen travellers set up camp across the road last week. They have been quiet, tidy and their kids well behaved. However, this hasn't stopped some of my neighbours complaining to the council about them and plans are now in place to move them on.

I am ashamed by this NIMBY-ism.

[TandB]

The difficulty the travelling community have is that there is, however nice it would be if it wasn't the case, a fair-size contingent of that community who create problems by setting up camp on people's land and causing damage.

We used to live near some land that hosted a travelling fair three times a year and it was a nightmare at those times. Car break-ins went through the roof suddenly - I don't know whether this was members of the travelling community or people attracted by the fact that the travellers would be blamed. The site was left filthy and badly damaged - there was no respect shown for the land. Vans and lorries blocked access and requests to move were met with verbal abuse and flat refusal. There were no concessions made to the fact that they were making local people's lives difficult by their behaviour.

Just before we moved a small group of travellers set up camp on a small piece of land right outside our house. They were perfectly pleasant people who created no real problems, although their generators running all night were irritating. Unfortunately everyone's hearts sank when they turned up because of the problems experienced regularly with travellers. They were moved on as soon as it could be managed. Our landlords were trying to rent our house out at the time and several people turned up for viewings and didn't even come in - they were completely put off by the presence of the travellers. There was actually nothing in theory wrong with them being there - but people's experiences with other travellers meant that it was inevitable that they were going to be seen as a problem.

[bubblecoral]

Wallow in you ignorance like pigs wallowing in the mud its all your good for.

Really? I asked a genuine question about your perceptions of things, because oddly enough, I don't know everything about every way of life that there is in this country, and the next response from you accuses everyone of being ignorant?

People are likely to stay ignorant and stop showing any kind of sincere interest if that's they way they they are seen by you.

You are doing yourself no favours. But then I don't suppose you care, because you have your opinions and you're sticking to them. Funny, but lots of people would say that's quite ignorant.

[beesimo]

Google

The Holocaust the Devouring of the Romani

Not five or six hundred years ago WITHIN LIVING MEMORY this was done to us by Gorje the only thing that saved my Grandys family was the English Channel.

MN has confirmed my opinions are correct and my DDs have had their eyes opened a bit. What will save us now is the fact we are no longer poor people living in vardas

[bubblecoral]

Yes, google would answer the question I asked, of course. How could I be so stupid as to ask an actual living person with direct experience?

[beesimo]

I don't want to talk to you as I've been mocked enough for one night.

[bubblecoral]

Wonder why that might be?

[beesimo]

You can look at what you have just seen and come on here and make your cheap cracks?

[Shoesytwoesy]

Beesimo I like your posts, I think you offer a different and real insight,
I grew up in area where a lot of gypsies had settled(sorry if wrong term but that is what we said back then) my best friend is from romany decent, I went to school with a lot of kids that came from gypsy families and shock horror they were just kids just like me and my other friends,
I notice that there are still being racist to gypsies/travelers seems to be still seen as ok by a lot of people on mn,

[fedupofnamechanging]

Beesimo, I'm not sure what the holocaust has got to do with people recounting their very real experiences of travellers behaving badly here and now.Not one person on this site would support what happened to certain groups of people in Nazi Germany and given that the majority of people on this site are British our grandparents were actively fighting Nazism.

The fact remains, if travellers left the places where they camped nice and clean and didn't cause problems for local residents then no one would have a problem with them. If they camp on land which is not theirs and leave it looking like a shithole when they leave, then rightly people are going to be pissed off about it. It's nothing to do with race, it's to do with their lifestyle choices (to camp on someone else's property and leave it like a tip)impinging on the rights and freedoms of everyone else (to not have their land squatted on etc).

Now, given that you clearly state that you do not do this yourself and are a law abiding, tax paying, respectable citizen, I take that to mean you would disapprove of such behaviour. Why do you then have a go at people who are just like you in also choosing not to like/accept this behaviour? Respect and consideration seems to mean a lot to you so why do you feel the need to defend people who are disrespectful and have no consideration for anyone else, who want to reap the benefits of a society that they choose not to contribute to?

[diabolo]

Beesimo - was this (People like you are 'less than' you need your scapegoats and hate figures because you lack something you have a sad dark empty bitterness within you. End of.) directed at me and my question that preceded this answer of yours?

Cos I really don't have any sad dark empty bitterness inside me!

I asked how you as a tax-paying, law-abiding person, would feel if you had had the bad experiences that some people here have had? How does that make me less than and what am I less than exactly?

[teraspawn]

Your neighbours as a community have made them feel unwelcome. Your apology would come as a person from the community - I think that's a nice thing. And I second that you should talk to the council about letting them stay!

[worraliberty]

Beesimo have you ever done any 'travelling' yourself? Have you ever camped out for free on land that someone else owns because you don't fancy paying the hook up fees at a caravan site?

If your family have been settled for 3 generations, they're certainly not what I would call 'travellers' as the clue is in the name.

Now if you and your kids lead law abiding lives, this thread is no about you is it? Though oddly enough, you seem to have tried to make it so?!?

[beesimo]

Message for MN ladies please don't delete anything that is vile or unjust such as TakeItOnTheChins wrote as she has the right to show herself up for what she is. As do the rest of them.

It has been very interesting to get peoples true opinions as generally because most bigots are gutless false people they would drop their heads if they saw me 'looking at them'. Or as Worraliberty said 'oh no Beesimo we are not talking about you!!!

[fedupofnamechanging]

Personally, I hate it when people get posts deleted. You can only get a true sense of a thread by being able to read everyone's comments and I think it's a bit controlling and rude to get someone else's post deleted just because you don't like the content. Let it stand and let everyone else judge for themselves. The only exception to this is when the poster themselves wants to delete their own comment, and I consider that to be their right. Still makes it difficult to comment fairly on a thread though.

I've yet to see how it is bigoted to object to anti social behaviour.

[Peachy]

It's hard.

Many councils will admit there are noo palces for Travellers to go to as the sites are vastly short of places, there are no council homes for those who want them as it is, and most private landlords won;t touch anyone self employed as many travelling people are.

I get why people wouldn't want anyone on their owned land but equally tehy are people who have to be somewhere and there simply isn;t anywhere for them.

A Welsh council just ahd to pay ££££££££££ to set up basic amenities for a travelling family on a non approved site because they admitted they could not give them anywhere else to go to. And locally even the Vicar is protesting about allocating unused land to affordable housing.

I guess if we establish a society that excudes certain groups then we shouldn't be surprised when their survical interrupts our ways of life.
We can't have it all ways. And unfortunately the bad eggs (and we have been personal victims via the carnivals back home and thefts of many thousands over eyars) give those who look for an excuse one to grasp: really of course we should judge people on their own merits and situation but that's too much for some people's brains to process it seems.

Do I have land to offer them, even a garden space? no. If I had the sort of scrub or unused tip that they occupy locally would I mind? I suspect not. People first, at all costs.

[Peachy]

' Have you ever camped out for free on land that someone else owns because you don't fancy paying the hook up fees at a caravan site?


In general caravan sites cannot offer that sort of long term lease, they have restrictions on their planning agreements. And I wonder how many of you would use a site that had Travellers staying on it? Yet I suspect the same people would object if the site went under and the owners claimed benefits to survive.....

[fedupofnamechanging]

See, I don't think the council should have a responsibility to provide sites for travellers.I don't think society is excluding travellers, rather that travellers are choosing to live outside of mainstream society. I think that if you want to live outside of mainstream society then that is your right, but why should it be funded by the people who do live within it?

So far as council housing is concerned, I would support anyone's right to go on the housing list, but seeing as there is not enough social housing for the number of people who want it, then these houses have to be assigned in order of need rather than want. I'd quite like a council house, but I'd not get one on the grounds that I don't qualify as needing one. That's just the way it is.

[thefirstMrsDeVere]

'learned cautiousness'? (sp -yours is better than mine). Learned from what?

Some people may have learned it from first hand experience but it seems that most people have 'learned' it from their uncle's best mate's sister who once had her lawnmower nicked and there was a load of gypsies living about 6 miles away so we reckon it was them'

Not likeing the overt prejudice against travellers doesent make me a wishy washy liberal. I dont like it because it is wrong to dislike an entire group of people based on the actions or percieved actions of some of them.

There is a massive site at the top of my road. You wouldnt know it was there.

I am not a traveller groupie anymore than I think all black people are fab or all Muslims are really lovely

[worraliberty]

Or as Worraliberty said 'oh no Beesimo we are not talking about you!!!

I didn't say that. I said you seem to be trying to make it all about you

The point is, the OP seems fine about strangers turning up on someone elses land for free. She felt the need to apologise for people who actually don't like seeing the law broken in this way and distress caused to land owners.

Now, if the OP woke up one morning to find uninvited intruders on her property she may well think differently because it would actually affect her and not someone else.

My house has a back garden. Would I be happy to open the blinds in the morning and find people squatting there? Like heck I would.

[maristella]

I'm not licking anyone's arses, or trying to be wishy washy, or patronising, but I fucking hate racism.

OP I totally understand why you would want to let the travellers who were near you know that not everyone is racist.
Sadly though, every thread about travellers brings out the angry racists, who get all excited about slagging off an entire race of people, describing them as tax dodgers, free loaders, thieves etc.
For what it's worth, there are tax dodging free loaders of all ethnic groups in this country. Oh and not all travellers are roadside, the term 'traveller' is now used to describe an ethnic origin.

All this racism is an embarrassment to MN

[Shoesytwoesy]

beesimo sorry it is me that reported as I cannot abide the sly racism that seems to be deemed acceptable on mn. the only way to let mn hq to know about these racists is to report.

[maristella]

Me too Shoesy

And it is a very sly, snidey form of racism. It's lowering the tone massively.

[fedupofnamechanging]

Given that not all travellers have the same ethnic origin, it's a stupid word to use because it is not accurate.

[worraliberty]

Can someone please explain to me how not wanting someone to turn up uninvited on someone else's private property racist?

It's breaking the law...pure and simple. I don't care who the squatters are. They could be Travellers, Black, White or from Mars.

It does not make them above the law..and it does not (IMO) make it ok for the OP to go apologising for other people who don't like to see the law broken.