TO SAY Camerons Policies are in danger of getting all disabled people labelled as "Scroungers"

[ScousyFogarty]

That is a wicked thing do do and David Cameron beeds to apologise or more likely get one of his flunkies to say SORRY

I am sure you are very worried about your future Jade. So imagine how worried someone as vunerable as Smileandwave is? A carer for a disabled husband and a disabled child. What must that be like?

I know as our circumstances are startlingly similar. My OH also ex services, also disabled, my DS also has ASD (as well as other disabilities).
Not how I expected my life to turn out. Not my choice, not my fault.

I have also paid taxes for a very long time as has my OH. Over 50 years between us.

Now we need that help we are left wondering what will become of our family if OH's DLA is removed. The fact he has MS is not reassuring. People say to us 'but he has MS they wont take it away'. How I wish I could believe it.

Frankly we have enough to keep us worried without this added burden.

Yes, yes I know that you dont mean US when you talk about reforms and fraud etc. No one ever does mean US. Funny how its people like US who get hammered then isnt it?

Ooo, I've just realised smileandwave answered my first post, I'm glad you didn't seem offended by my post smileandwave! I see what you mean in your second post, it makes sense, but I still don't understand part of your first post, the questions I asked about prisoners, and the rich?

Ah.. now I've found your answer to my questions- I'm so sorry, I'm getting lost with the speed this is moving at, let me catch up, lol!

DLA fraud is notoriously low because even if someone can pull the wool over the eyes of their GP they can't do the same with a specialist.... and currently the DWP ask for reports from both. I currently provide at least five different reports for each of my children with their applications.

ATOS will be getting rid of this rigorous system in favour of a 30 minute assessment with a doctor employed by an agency that has been given the job of cutting claims by the government. Never mind that specialists state you meet the criteria, their 30 minute interview will be far more important in awarding the claim (or not, in the majority of cases).

Some statistics. DLA has a fraud AND ERROR rate of 0.5% (this figure from an actual DWP document). I will try to find the link to the document for perusal. DLA is underclaimed by some 40% (meaning that for all that claim DLA there are at least 40% more who meet the criteria but don't claim).

Yet the government want to CUT claimants by 20%.

You don't have to be a genius to work out that this is at least 19.5% of people who have been deemed to meet the criteria by medical professionals that they are just going to cut off without a penny.

Another source (which I will also locate the link for everyone's perusal) has found that the budget for DLA when it was introduced is directly comparable to the budget for DLA today - taking into account the value of the £ 18 years ago and today it really isn't costing any more than when it was introduced.

The Welfare State may need reform, but I don't think targetting disability benefits is the answer.

Now, I'll brb with those links.

JADE you probably sit on the fence; because your sympathies have been towards one of the ~##coalition parties....or the Coalition. I think the actualexperiences on here ring true. And governments should not in cold blood harraass the disabled. BBC radio 4 treat the debate well Not so, in my opinion BBC Radio 5-Live. I think they go with the government without serious question It needs honest questioning

I started a long answer to all of this, but actually, you know what, I was supposed to be having a day off from all this shite.

And you haven't bothered to click on the links I already put some effort into googling and serving up fully clickable for you, which would have answered your questions before you asked them

So I think I'll save my energy for dealing with MPs.

if jade80 and nijinsky know people commiting fraud why dont you report it especially after your own comments surely its your duty, no i dont think just because youve got asthma or had pneumonia you should be claiming disability or dla as id be getting it and so would 60% of the population at one time or other, and i dont think you would get it either you have to be disabled for months and continuously to get it its HARD to get it not easy so im sure when you see their doctors they would have if you had tried not been allowed it , no ones disputes there are liars there are liars and theves everywhere but they are going to be punishing vunerable people too its like a teacher keeing the whole class in just because two children are being naughty and talking

Ok first link, I beg your pardon but it's the numbers claiming DLA that have remained static not the budget, see here

Just looking for that DWP report, back soon

Thanks for your response MrsDeVere. The person I know with the bad back doesn't work. Can I also point out that there is another huge group of disabled "claimants" - those who have retired from the public sector at a young age on protected pensions due to disability. But thats going off-topic.

Is there is a culture of disabilty in the UK now? It confers advantages to have it recognised. Its taboo to say so but there is no emphasis on being robust and stoic (and I am not for one moment talking about serious disabilities here and fully expect to be flamed because the attitude is that anyone who thinks they should be registered disabled is disabled).

But why are there so many disabled people in the UK compared to other countries? 27.2% of the population have a disability or long standing health problem in the UK, compared to 6.6% in Italy. In America, its around 18% and around 20% in Australia.

And I'm not saying disability equals not working but obviously there is some link. I think my views were coloured as my father was one of the typical eating unhealthy and too much all his life, smoking, heart disease early on, late onset disabetes, circulatory problems, etc and then of course disabled and with the attitude holier than thou. Not saying everyone is the same but in his case disability was virtually a lifestyle choice, and the disability benefits system encourages that.

Scousyfogarty- no all braggers don't tell the truth, however this particular case is sadly related to me by marriage, it is not gossip, it is fact.

OK smileandwave I have read you points re. prisoners and think that is another kettle of fish entirely. Costs should be cut in the prison system, totally independently from the benefits system, by providing the prisoners with less, in my opinion. Not by cutting sentences! Is it still the case that prison food gets better funding than school food? If so then it is an indicator there are many cuts to be made in the prison system.
I totally agree with you that the prison system and child benefit should be looked at for potential savings. This should not be linked in any way to this discussion though- it is a whole other topic (although obviously I understand that it seems totally unjust!)

Shoesytwosy, that sounds like an awful situation. I do hop that the benefit system pulls through for your daughter and makes her life as comfortable as possible. Are you able to visit her, or collect her to take her to places, or do you have no transport yourself?

Second link campaigns.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/fem_apr08_mar09.pdf see page 8 of this DWP report to see in their own words how the fraud AND error rate is 0.5%

Personally I find it disgraceful that the Minister for Disabled People refused to come out and see all those that demonstrated on May 11th and pathetically sat behind closed doors bleating on about "alcoholics and drug addicts claiming disability benefits". That march wasn't about that. She should be fired.

jade - sorry, I was arsing about on mumsnet busy. By 'not my economy', I mean that I didn't cause this crisis and I don't accept that this govt has a democratic mandate to make me pay for it.

There is no 'culture of disability' in this country. Those with disabilities are still very much in the minority which is why we are facing such apathy towards the cuts in money and services that the disabled and their carers are facing.

Nobody cares about the terror thousands of people are going through waiting for that axe to fall. It could be a bus crash or a drink driver away from any poster here on mumsnet.

I think most people are worried for their future mrsdevere. Certainly those with any imagination. I also know it is quite possible that I, or a close family member, or a future child of mine will be disabled.

I suppose that is partly why I am posting here rather than blithely going about my business thinking 'oh it'll never happen to me'. I am interested in the whole thing, hence why I'm still here!

I can understand your frustration, the whole system seems shot. I just can't square that with saying 'oh ok, leave it as it is. It's bad, but change has got to be worse'.

SmileandWave can't report her as she is now enjoying life as a para athlete. I didn't realise the differing levels of para athletes there are, many of whom work but not her. She is however being investigaged by her work as she took early retirement and is leading a particularly active lifestyle, hence I think why she was so keen to be classified as a para athlete.

I actually know another person who is registered disabled due to arthritis but does plenty of outdoors stuff in all weathers in pursuit of her hobby and also works, cash in hand. I wouldn't report her because I couldn't be that mean and just couldn't bring myself to. Everyone knows she's at it in the village where she lives but no-one has reported her because presumably a lot of the others there are at it too.

What are you saying I can't jump on the bandwagon because I have only have asthma? I'm sure there are people registered disabled with asthma not as serious as mine. (not saying I would want to be disabled but I'm sure you can be for asthma and recurrent lung infections).

yes its a different kettle of fish but were talking government spending/saving but at the end of the day all the cost cutting relevant whatever dept its in they all affect each other/us when your in my position if you ever are and i hope for all your sakes your not you will understand its not words to me its reality i have had no respite and ive had no break in 10 years of looking after the disabled i used to look after my mother who had heart problems and a lung disease (she was not a smoker before shes blamed for her own demise) untill i cared for her SHE was my only occasional respite well its one less scrounger for mr cameron isnt it always look on the bright side of life

''I started a long answer to all of this, but actually, you know what, I was supposed to be having a day off from all this shite.

And you haven't bothered to click on the links I already put some effort into googling and serving up fully clickable for you, which would have answered your questions before you asked them

So I think I'll save my energy for dealing with MPs.''

Please do carry on, it is interesting. I haven't clicked on the links yet, no, I am having trouble keeping up with the thread as it is, but I will return to them once I've answered the other points people made to me. Thanks for posting.

Glitterknickaz There is no 'culture of disability' in this country. Those with disabilities are still very much in the minority which is why we are facing such apathy towards the cuts in money and services that the disabled and their carers are facing.

It is quite a sizable minority though - more than 1 in 4. So that means there are less than 3 people of working age to earn enough tax to support the services disabled people need. Presumably thats why care has to be taken to ensure the system targets support only at those who genuinely need it.

nijinksy - who says that disabled people don't work?
Indeed DLA can in many cases help those with disabilities get to work, something they may not be able to do if they DO get DLA.
Guess what? Those people pay tax.

I really dislike the fallacy being distributed by media such as the Daily Mail, Telegraph & Express (and on some occasions the BBC) that people with disabilities do not work.

''if jade80 and nijinsky know people commiting fraud why dont you report it especially after your own comments surely its your duty''

If it was a random person I would, but sadly as there is a family link I have been asked not to (complicated set of circumstances I can't really go into) and as the situation currently stands I will not go back on my word. Hopefully at some point in the future things will change and I will report like a shot.

well yes and no lol ive a friend whos termanily ill with cancer but as these illnesses go has been ok for 10 years so has been taken off disability and had dla reduced im still sure that cant be right but he showed me his letter beggars belief

Its a pile of crap right now. My favourite proposal being if you use a powerchair you are no longer disabled and will lose the money. How do they think we pay for our fucking powerchairs? They arenot nhs supplied. We have to buy them.
And DLA is not related to work or income.

Certainly in parts of Scotland, there is very much a culture of disability. Its almost a right of passage for some men in certain areas to suffer a few lifestyle related illnesses and move seamlessly onto disability benefits in middle age.

''jade - sorry, I was arsing about on mumsnet busy. By 'not my economy', I mean that I didn't cause this crisis and I don't accept that this govt has a democratic mandate to make me pay for it.''

Lol, thanks for coming back! I get what you mean, of course it is none of our faults individually.

But at the same time, it IS your economy, and mine, and his over there. Otherwise none of us would get anything from it at all, but we do. I don't really know how to put what I'm trying to say... I don't see how you can say 'it's not my economy' on one hand yet live within it on the other hand?

Glitterknickaz your point (that many disabled people do work and pay tax) is totally correct. Its just that I don't know any disabled people who do work. You just have to go to any town in central Scotland during the working day and look at the number of people swanning around the shops who have climbed out of cars with blue badges. Anyone in the motor trade will tell you that mobility cars are a huge market round here.