TO SAY Camerons Policies are in danger of getting all disabled people labelled as "Scroungers"

[ScousyFogarty]

That is a wicked thing do do and David Cameron beeds to apologise or more likely get one of his flunkies to say SORRY

YADNBU.

My partner is currently at the mercy of the Atos system. It puts the sick and the disabled on trial - litterally. Civilised society my arse.

Uh, surely it works the other way. If scroungers are taking all the money off genuine claimants, there is less left for people who actually need it. I don't really get why removing unnecessary benefits causes such an uproar. I understand the difficulties of policing it fairly, but surely an attempt to do so is better than throwing your arms in the air and saying 'oh help yourselves if you think you should/deserve to/are entitled to'.

Because they are not actually, unnecessary?

If you live on a very low income Jade80, and the govtssays we will take 30quid of that from you. then you nay well be very distressed . Stuck inthe middles last post explains the system succinctly. BURNLEY IF YOU LIVE THERE YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND , it was tried outthere causung distress to many vulnerable people.

yanbu, as I have seen on lts of threads there are people who believe the spin DC does and thinks this.
oh here we go ...

MonstaMunch Sun 29-May-11 13:10:22
i think the fact remains that there are some people who claim disability when they have no right to, and there are people on disability who use it as an excuse not to look for work

even medical experts say up to 50% of certain disabilities are misdiagnosed

but i am sure most of us can distinguish between the scrounger types and those in genuine need

same old crap, looks like DC and the daily mail have won.

Yes well Shoesy, hating the poor is an easy way for twats to make sure that nobody mistakes them for the poor.

What they are saying is this "I think the poor are terrible people, so obviously I cannot be one of them!"

Sad bastards.

im bloody distressed and will quite possible if you read the green paper a while back at the possibility that my ds who IS disabled and IS vunerable will be probably not get the already megre help which mean we wont be able to get around and will be house bound so yes im distressed already its not going to affect the scroungers as some call them possibley rightly so but also the sick elderly and vunerable who DO need it there are other disabilities other than the physical ones some are like autism invisible but just as dramatic what about people like my DS what about when i die and hes even more vunerable what then

Stuckinthemiddlewithyou- I doubt you can realistically say that there are NO unnecessary claims. I am not disputing that people who NEED them should get them- in fact the exact opposite, I am saying those who don't NEED them should not get them, so that those who do can have them in this time of cuts.

Scousyfogarty. yes of course people will be unhappy to have current benefits removed. But I am not saying 'take it all away!' I am saying that there needs to be someone looking at where money is BEST spent.

Stuckinthemiddle I do not 'hate the poor'. I am very glad we live in a country where benefits exist to help people in their time of need. HOWEVER, if we help all and sundry without checking the actual level of need, there will eventually come a time when the whole system collapses.

Sadly over the last few generations the sense of entitlement to things has increased while the desire to put something back when you can has decreased. I am not personally versed in the statistics but I have seen the evidence of this in many situations and know of numerous people who claim when in actual fact they could get by without.

Jade80, the statistics are on this thread, had you bothered to read it before gracing us with your wisdom.

Less than 1% fraud on disability benefits.

here we go with the sense of entitlement posts

Well of course, there are legions of people claiming tax credits that they could probably do without.

However, when benefits are your only source of income it's a whole different ball game. It is never pleasant when a persons income falls, but it's even worse if you were on the breadline anyway.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/press_office201022

statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/index.php?page=fraud_error

Just a bit of perspective on this!

I am disabled. Proper, can't walk, can't get to the toilet unassisted (inaccessible house, no, we can't get it adapted, yes we've been trying for a year to move to shared ownership), live on benefits, dp is ft carer 24/7 for which he gets £53per wk. I AM ENTITLED TO EXPECT THIS SOCIETY TO CARE FOR ME AND MY FAMILY. I do not accept that I would be better off if there were no 'scroungers'. Go tell Boots (1% tax) and Barclays (3% tax), then get ATOS to run their computer check list over me. Walk? No. Bend over? No. Pick up off floor? No. Anyone know how much they get paid btw? I would be grateful if the people so concerned about the 'national' economy (whose economy? Not mine) would get off my case and stop humiliating us 'vulnerable' 'genuine' disabled people to save Cameron & Clegg's system a few quid. We're mainly disabled by this crappy society, not our physical/mental impairments.

And yeah, I have a sense of entitlement.

I paid years of National Insurance premiums on the promise that, if I were ever unlucky enough to be ill, I would be entitled to a small insurance payout (currently £94.25 a week, or less than half what I'd make if I could work 35 hrs/wk at the national minimum wage).

This is now being made a one-year only payout, so mine will stop as soon as they get to me in the pile.

hear hear ThisIsANiceCage i paid too and now my DH lost his limbs in the services and my DS is autistic im put throuh hell and then because of a very small percentage of people and a punishing the weak government am made to litterally beg for help and i really mean beg youve no idea what the LA and all the government put us through and yes when i try to talk to anyone sitting the oposite side of the desk am made to feel like a scrounging piece of dirt off their shoe belittled and degraded just doesnt express how they treat you

0.8% is just the figure they have for proven fraudulent claims though surely?

What other kind is there? The "she looks dishonest to me" kind?

I am being proactive in the ATOS atrocity. I was demonstrating last week outside one of their DWP offices in London as part of an anti-poverty group i belong to.
I know it probably won't make any difference...but what else are we to do?

And for everyone explaining their situations.

If anyone wants to contribute, I'm still collecting personal accounts of the importance of DLA over on What Does DLA Mean To You, to send to the DWP select committee under Dame Anne Begg (she's thanked us for the ones we already sent).

Thisisanicecage, I am sure you don't mean to sound so condescending. I have read the thread, yes. I stated 'I am not personally versed in the statistic' i.e. I can't reel them off or be certain those posted here are accurate. If the 99% you quote is accurate, how is it in any way a good use of government time or funds to invesitgate further? I would suggest that those statistics must be at least a little in question, or why bother- it would cost more money to investigate than it would save. It also does not tally with my personal experience (yes, I am aware of the fallibilty of personal experience!) and I find this an interesting contradiction, hence why I am posting here. I am happy to have my views changed by reasonable arguments.

Usualsuspect, I'm afraid I'm not going to go into a reply to your post, having seen the type of thing you usually post.

Stuckinthemiddle. I haven't read those links, but yes I agree re. WTC. It is unfortunate that there is such as disparity between the minimum wage and a practical amount of money to live in in this country.

Aliceliddel, yes I agree that you can expect support from the government. You, and I, are very lucky that we live in a country where this is possible, as for most of the history of humanity, in most countries, it simply would not have happened. I am a little confused by some of your post, what do you mean that it is 'not your economy'? Not being funny, I just don't get what you mean?
I am not saying you would be 'better off' if there were 'no scroungers', presumably you would get the same, but the money that was unfairly claimed previously would stay in the government coffers and go towards the deficit. The thing is, I am not trying to 'humiliate 'vulnerable' 'genuine' disabled people to save Cameron & Clegg's system a few quid''. I don't think anyone is.
Would the savings even have been necessary without the actions of the previous government? (Before this explodes, please note I haven't stated my political allegiance- just playing devil's advocate). You say 'we're mainly disabled by this crappy society, not our physical/mental impairments'- but who made the crappy society? Who is responsible? How would you go about rectifying it- just stick with the status quo?

Thisisanicecage- if you paid that many years of NI premiums, you are patently not the type of person I am on about here.

I caught something on the news about DLA. It showed the case of a woman caught jumping out of planes and such whilst saying she cant walk.

Really balanced reporting

THAT is what people think about DLA claimants. Look at any thread about DLA and the majority will say that they think its great and all that but loads of people claim it fraudulently.
The majority also are sure it is an out of work benefit.
The majority are certain its really easy to get.

The majority, in fact, know feck all about DLA.

But I am the type of person who is being affected by the cuts.

Which are made politically acceptable by constantly misdirecting the public with talk of fraud.

Onagar- take as an example the amount of actual rapes, compared to the amount that go to court, compared to the amount of convictions. That, presumably, has parallels with the 'proven fradulent cases' compared to suspected fraud, and then compared to actual fraud, no?

Before I get queried on this, I am not comparing actual percentages or anything silly like that, just expaining the reasoning.

ATOS is a big name in this disability debate. But the goverment must take responsibility about what atos do to disabled people. Crazyanna, of course you should demonstrate if youy are being treated badly. Even if you are a Tory or Liberal it does not stopyou objecting to this policy...The Librals did not get what they wanted. They are the underlogs in the coalition. I wish Vince Cable would resign from the Cabinet and write a book aboutwhat has been going on .He is very unhappy.

"how is it in any way a good use of government time or funds to invesitgate further?"

Indeed.

That doesn't, however, mean the statistics are wrong. Just that the DWP has a politically-driven bee in its bonnet at the moment.

You could also very reasonably argue that the existence of fraud-checking mechanisms is the reason fraud is so low.

crazynanna - me too! 'What else are we to do?' Hmm, lets think....drive very slowly round the M25 at 8am on a Monday? Chain your wheelchair across the door of the council offices? Go for the nuclear option - strike? I think it probably will make a difference.

Thisisanicecage, you have spent years putting something into the system, and are now in need of the system yourself. This is how our system should work, you should be entitled to claim. Presumably you are happy for your situation to be checked and verified and then for your DLA to continue? Has there been a suggestion it will be discontinued for you? (I apologise if I missed this info somewhere in this long thread.)

I am not sure I 'have been constantly misdirected' (I don't even read the DM ).