How old should little boys be when they use the men's room instead of the Ladies' room with Mum?

[missinglalaland]

I only have two girls, so I don't know the ins and outs of parenting boys. Sometimes I am surprised at the height and age of boys being steered into the "ladies" room by their mothers. Often with Fathers waiting outside!!! (Lazy gits.) I am thinking that in a place like a train station you should expect to see mum's being fairly protective, but I get a bit annoyed in places like National Trust toilets, when the boys seem embarrassed/interested.

What's the proper etiquette?

The problem with unisex toilets is that there is never more than 2 of them in one place.

But how could you possibly know whether they have SN exotic? For the millionth time, nobody could possibly tell that my DS has quite severe SN, what if it was me you said something to? You would go home and forget it ever happened, for me and my DS it would be serve to add to the prejudice and discrimination we suffer everyday, it would make that day even harder than it already was, it would add to that "oh god I have to face another day of dirty looks and bitchy comments" feeling I get everytime I take my son out for the day.

Please, do me and other mums out there a favour, give the benefit of the doubt and live and let live.

I wouldn't actually say anything ohboys, in RL I am always polite and diplomatic
However,in general on here people are not saying they have DCs with SN, if they were they would get a very sympathetic hearing, they are saying that their DS can't go into the gents because they have to go alone and their mother doesn't know who might be in there.
Therefore I am not talking at all to anyone with DCs with SN-merely to those who could cope easily on their own but are not allowed to.

I have noticed one DS with special needs, everyone was quite happy-he is the only one, despite going to loos all over the country-so I really don't think it is the norm in RL for boys over 7yrs to accompany their mother to the ladies.(although it may appear to be on MN).

"If I ever saw a mother with these older boys (without SN) I might say something."

Your words!

Maternelle - In a lot of European countries they would be astounded at how overprotective some mothers are. In many countries in the continent 5 year olds are expected to make their way too and from school/pre school by themselves.

I am quite different in RL ohboys-I get carried away on here!
If I was postive they had no SN I might say something, but as you say, it is difficult to tell, so I would err on the side of caution.

It isn't fair to turn it into SN. It was on AIBU and it was about perfectly normal DSs whose mothers won't send them to the correct toilet.
The mother knows if they are SN needs or not and if the mother knows they can cope she is being unreasonable to take them into the ladies.

For one point she is bringing up an unquestioning DS-far more likely to do what any adult tells him-if he can't say 'I'm a big boy now' and insist on the gents. I simply wouldn't have got my 8yr old DS in the ladies.

Exotic I've parented a lot of boys and some to adulthood so don't preach
The op feels uncomfortable with boys in loo as far as I'm concerned if I'm protecting my child from germs or whatever then I will do
Have a

Seeker have you read the op?

GiddyPickle-could we just make it clear, once and for all, that we are not talking about DS with SN or social anxieties etc etc. We are talking about DSs who would go into the gents with their father, or if the mother was sure it was empty, is quite happy to go to the toilet alone and can manage-the sort that could go on a school trip and the teacher could say 'all the boys who need the loo go now-sending them to the gents'.

I suggest that people read the helicopter parenting thread and sees where over protectiveness gets you! A very poor adult relationship.
I would still like to know why people on MN persist in thinking their DS can't go to the gents and yet I never ever see older DSs in the ladies in RL. (despite travelling far and wide-and in European countries where they do have male and female toilets.)

I have said quite clearly that I couldn't be sure so I would err on the side of caution and not make assumptions. IT IS NOT ABOUT SN.
There are women posting on here who know that their DS has no special needs and they go in the ladies-they are the ones they are talking about.
Can we be plain that we are talking about posters who know their DS hasn't got SN of any sort?

Fair enough, I actually agree that all children should be taught basic skills they're going to need later. This includes how to go to the toilet alone/strategies for dealing with dodgy situations etc.

I also think that it's impossible to make a sweeping statement such as "no boys over 7/8" or whatever. Children mature at different speeds, there are varying degrees of SN, there are illnesses that may impact upon an 8 year olds ability to use the toilet alone. (My DS2 for example, who's 6 ATM but has a very complex condition which he's had several operations to correct and will need several more, he's very mature, independant and able to do many things for himself but it's often very painful for him to pass urine, sometimes he has a stern in etc.)

Many people on this thread have made huge sweeping generalisations about an acceptable age when this issue is not black and white, some have gone as far to say people are bad parents for taking 8-11 year olds into female toilets.

It's been said a thousand times before, the vastmajority are not being over-protective mothers, they're probably just making a judgement call with the knowledge of what their own DS can manage to do alone.

Live and let live.

And actually, if I had a child with that sort of "invisible' special need, I would respect his dignity and take him to the disabled loos. Why should he be put in the embarrassing position of going to the ladies just because he has, for example,arthritis in his hands.

the poster who said she /he send her/his son into the disabled toilet did not say her/his son had SN, if a parent with a child with now sn does this no wonder it is so hard for people with non visible disabilities,

Nobody has said on the whole of this thread that you can tell if someone else has SN by looking at them. People are posting in response to mums who have said their children haven't got SN, are 10,11 or 12 years old and their mum still won't let them go to the mens toilets on their own.

And yes it must be very rare in RL as I am not aware from my own experience of this happening. But as people have posted it on here, other people are responding to this.

I have put 6/8 yrs as a huge 'grey' area. After 8yrs I would think that the DS is embarrassed-it isn't the norm or I would see lots of boys in the gents with mother and I don't.

I don't like to be indelicate, but let's clarify. I found myself in a typical ladies' cubical. The kind where there are gaps in the sides and people don't see what you are up to because they choose not to peer through the gaps. A young male of 5 feet tall peered through at me as I tried to deal with my menstrual hygiene. I was uncomfortable. I did resent him being there. It did cause me to wonder what in the world he was doing there anyway. I felt some deep social norms had been transgressed and my privacy had been rode rough shod over.

Now, I asked my question on MN rather than saying or doing anything there on the spot. I'm glad I did because until reading this 13 page thread, it never occurred to me that the both the young man's presence and behaviour could be explained by invisible special needs. Looking back, this was probably the case. And the mother has my sympathy and of course I am "over it."

Most folks with normally developing (is this the polite lingo?) children have said that their kids started using the loo around 6/7 and were pretty much independent by 8 unless the loo was particularly worrisome. I've got no problem with this. Seems reasonable to me.

I do think the Mums with DSs with SN will eventually have to find a new strategy because puberty will occur and there will be no way they can acceptably bring these boys into the Ladies' loo. If they want a few more years of life being a teensy bit easier by being able to take the boys into the ladies loo rather than searching out a disabled loo, then fine with me.

And one final thought, while I agree that the public gents bellow Leicester square would be a crazy place to send a boy on his own, why this deep fear of men generally? Surely in most gent's loos the men in there are simply our fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, not all manic rapists. Would a normal man feel comfortable helping a little boy who ran into trouble in the gents, the way I am sure a woman would help my daughter in the ladies loo if I wasn't there? Or would he fear that any approach would endanger him of appearing to be a peadophile?

Phew!

A very sensible, reasonable post missinglalaland-just about sums it up.

'I know of two secondary schools with mixed sex loos.....all cubicles obviously.'
OMG I bet that's a shag fest!!

Apart from the fact of dealing with menstruation fairydoll-it seems a mad idea to me.