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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

How old should little boys be when they use the men's room instead of the Ladies' room with Mum?

321 replies

missinglalaland · 26/05/2011 17:50

I only have two girls, so I don't know the ins and outs of parenting boys. Sometimes I am surprised at the height and age of boys being steered into the "ladies" room by their mothers. Often with Fathers waiting outside!!! (Lazy gits.) I am thinking that in a place like a train station you should expect to see mum's being fairly protective, but I get a bit annoyed in places like National Trust toilets, when the boys seem embarrassed/interested.

What's the proper etiquette?

OP posts:
MavisEnderby · 29/05/2011 00:58

I agree lesley.sn a nono (have LD DD) but,ds 7 is a sensible child,stranger danger has been taught.I stand outside the toilet.At some point you DO have to give them some independence,and seriously,there isn'ta paedophile lurking around every corner.(Awaits flaming)

lesley33 · 29/05/2011 01:05

I agree. If you don't give them independence gradually, you end up with teenagers or even adults who can't cope with everyday situations and I think are therefore genuinely vulnerable.

I'm not saying it is easy. I know as mums it can be scary to give them independence - but not to do it is I think for our benefit and not our kids.

MavisEnderby · 29/05/2011 01:13

I agree.Life isn't a bed of roses.DS has seen his father die and has a disabled sister.He is not a fool.In some ways it saddens me he is no longer a "Little boy" in some ways (he is in lots god bless him) but he is a sensible kid like I say,he has pushed for this independence and I feel I would be failing him if I wrapped him in cotton wool forever.He does need his independence in some respects but not all!!I have also let him go to local shops on his own (1 busy road with traffic lights away) again his wishes,in daylight.

letthembe · 29/05/2011 01:23

Agreeing with you both, Lesley and Mavis ... We have to let them have independence (when the time is right for the individual child) or they'll grow up without common sense.

Morloth · 29/05/2011 01:23

DuelingFanjo 'F**K me! Is this something I am going to have to have endless debates about when my 5 mth old DS is older'

Nope, most people just use their judgement and it all works out OK. As I said upthread, DS1 is almost 7 now, mostly he uses the men's but if I decide that isn't acceptable for any reason then he comes in with me.

I haven't seen anything on this thread that will change that. DS's safety is of more concern to me than anyone (be they adult or child) else's discomfort. This is selfish of me, but thems the breaks, I am his Mum and will do what I think is best in each situation. We have not encountered a problem.

Obviously if DH is about he takes him.

Don't get me started on the lack of change tables in men's loos. How fucking annoying is that!?

lesley33 · 29/05/2011 01:30

Morloth - But letting your 6 year old use the men's most of the time and only occasionally taking him into ladies if the situation doesn't feel right, sounds perfectly normal. Yes some parents may let their children use the mens earlier, but honest you are well within normal practice.

I think people here are arguing against the posters who won't let their 9, 10 ,11 or even 12 year old go into the mens alone.

Morloth · 29/05/2011 01:38

Yeah but you don't know what is going on there lesley33, how often does this actually come up?

Like exoticfruits I haven't actually encountered older boys in the ladies. It just hasn't happened, so I assume it is pretty rare and that if someone does have their older son with them then they have a reason for it like Peachy.

My order of preference as the mother of sons is:

DH there (so I don't have to go at all)
Family Loo
OK seeming men's
Come with me.

All the other mother's of boys I know operate in a similar fashion, hardly anyone wants to take their 11 year old with them to the loo, so if they are doing so then they have a good reason and it really isn't my problem or business what that reason is.

Wabbit · 29/05/2011 01:39

Oh I'm so pleased to see ds has got a couple of years to go yet... I was wondering this very thing!

lesley33 · 29/05/2011 01:50

Morloth - mums have posted on this thread about taking children who don't have SN, into ladies because they think their children will be in too much danger if they go into the mens on their own. It may be rare in RL but more than 1 poster has posted on this thread saying that.

Morloth · 29/05/2011 01:59

Yes, so? They are making the same call I am. I expect that if I thought the men's loos looked dodgy enough then I would take my 11 year old with me as well.

As I said, case by case basis, my level of dodgy might be different to their's. It isn't your call, it is theirs it doesn't actually harm anyone as much as it might annoy/embarrass them.

You don't know what people's backgrounds are, you don't know what their experiences are, you don't know which toilets they are talking about, you don't know what their kids are like, you don't know why they are making the decisions they are.

As I have been using public loos my whole life and can count on one hand the number of times I have seen 'older' looking (and of course just because a kid looks older doesn't mean they are) boys in the ladies then I think I will continue with my 'live and let live' method of looking at it. Better to chill the fuck out about a NT 11 year old in a ladies loo then risk adding to the burden of someone like Peachy or ohboysohboysohboys by making assumptions.

Niecie · 29/05/2011 01:59

DS2 is 7 (and a big 7 at that) and sometimes comes in with me. I don't know what men's loos are like really but he seems to like using a cubicle rather than urinals - perhaps he is too small, who knows. Unfortunately, having recently managed to get stuck in a cubicle in the mens he is a bit scared of going in alone - thankfully DH rescued him that time but if he doesn't like the look of the mens and there is nobody to go with him, I still take him in the ladies and hold the cubicle door shut with my foot. He won't lock it. If he insist on using a cubicle I think I would rather have him with me for the time being than me having to go in the mens and rescue him after several minutes of us both fretting.

Sometimes, if DS1 wants to go as well, I send them into together with strict instructions to wait for each other and not come out alone. DS1 has AS and has to be reminded to keep out an eye out for his brother but he usually manages it OK. I don't suppose it will be long before DS2 will refuse to go in the ladies but that is how it should be.

I am just a bit sad that I feel I am doing something wrong taking a 7 yr old into a ladies toilet these days. I have imagined that some might think it is somehow wrong - it seems from the OP that I am right. Sad

lesley33 · 29/05/2011 02:06

Niecie I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Although obviously at some stage he will need to have his confidence built up enough so that he will use teh mens.

Morloth - Seriously, why are you in the AIBU thread? The whole point of this thread is for people to give their views about subjects and often about parenting. If you think nobody should ever judge someone else's parenting decisions, I suggest you hang about another forum.

lesley33 · 29/05/2011 02:09

Just to say Niecie that I used to assume all men and boys stood up to wee. But I have been told by quite a few men that they sit down to wee. Perhaps your child does this in which case he will use a cubicle.

But after his scare it is perfectly understandable that you take him into the ladies.

And tbh people posting on this thread haven't been saying a 7 year old should never be taken into the ladies. The posts have been about much older non SN boys. So please don't worry that you are doing anything wrong,because you're not.

Morloth · 29/05/2011 02:31

I am on AIBU mostly because I like arguing on the internet but over the years I have also learned that things are very rarely black and white.

Somebody disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are in the wrong place, it means they disagree with you and it is a bit pathetic to tell someone that they should go away because they view a situation differently.

Niecie · 29/05/2011 02:33

They can think what they like, I am not going to stop taking him in if he needs to come with me. I was sad that I was proved right by the OP that there are women out there that have an issue with it. I realise she is in the minority and tbh, I had imagined it might only be older ladies who were most likely to care. It seems not.

I don't think he sits down to have a wee but having seen the difficulties he faced in a urinal cubicle in Belgium last year, I can see why he might want to use a normal loo. We stopped at a motorway services - very small just petrol and 2 toilet cubicles. One cubicle I assume had a normal loo in it but the other had a urinal. We waited ages for the normal cubicle but nobody came out and DS was getting very desperate so I sent him in the urinal cubicle only to find he was about a foot too short. I ended up having to lift him up to use it which wasn't easy as he is not a light weight. It wasn't helped by us both laughing at how ridiculous it was. Poor lad, I probably have scarred him for life, haven't I?!! Blush

seeker · 29/05/2011 06:43

"I was sad that I was proved right by the OP that there are women out there that have an issue with it. I realise she is in the minority and tbh, I had imagined it might only be older ladies who were most likely to care. It seems not."

But thi thread isn't about the attitudes of adult women.....Oh, forget it!!!!!!!!

exoticfruits · 29/05/2011 08:53

i doubt women would want their daughters aged 5-10 to disappear into a dirty mens loo - why let your sons?

Err...because they are male and their DDs are not...Confused
If they are next to each other surely if the mens are dirty the womens are too Confused

some children do not speak out when approached

I think the answer to this is that you teach them to speak out loudly if approached, you don't take the assumption that you can't let them in a loo.
I was a very shy DC but I embarrassed my mother when I was 3 yrs old (she was pleased really). A man tried to help her onto a bus by taking me (he was just being helpful-nothing more) and apparently I said 'put me down, put me down this minute'! No one even taught me that.
I'm sure that you can tell DC there are times that you can shout at an adult.

It is however very rare. You are going to have to do something-they will have to go into the gents eventually and they will have to go places without mother eventually. Otherwise they end up like the poor 17yr old on the helicoptering parent thread who thinks they can never live without their parents because they have no idea how to cope with normal people and normal life-they have been so protected.

I think seeker has said at least 3 times it isn't about the attitude of women.
It is about the poor DS.

People make it seem as if it is the norm for boys to go into the ladies, I don't think that it is. From motorway service stations, shopping centres, museums,zoos, parks, pubs, cafes etc etc I visit the ladies and I never see boys above about 6 yrs in with their mums. The only exceptions are SN, and that is completely understandable.

Those of you who don't like it-why not practice in somewhere like a motorway service station first-I would say they are completely safe-so many men are in and out-they are never empty and no one would risk it (and if they did- a quick shout of 'get off me' and a kick in the shins would get help from some quarter).

exoticfruits · 29/05/2011 08:54

practise not practice

NotaMopsa · 29/05/2011 12:14

Exotic you keep over simplifying it

As for' errr because theyre girls ' I despair

When my dd was young I was happy for her to go in the ladies without me. I am less happy for a son to go in the MEN'S because men's loos are dirty and renowned for sexual goings on of obe sort or another. The fact that my little boy may male too does not make it any easier...

seeker · 29/05/2011 12:19

Oh, ffs.

If the loo looks dodgy, then of course you don't send anyone into it. Pretty sure most adult men would rather hold on or find a convenient bush if the loo turned out to be a hotbed of man on man action!

But most loos at times when children will be out and about are not "renowned for sexual goings on"!

exoticfruits · 29/05/2011 12:34

I wouldn't go in if it looked dodgy!
I was saying there was no need to send your DD into the gents, but there is a need to send your DS in. You will have to send him eventually without you! (I have a friend whose DH is very funny about using public loos-I now think his mother must have caused it!)
I would suggest that you find some toilets that are heavily used NotaMopsa and practise letting him use them. Try a museum when you see lots of other boys go in.
I am not oversimplifying it-it is already simple! Toilets in public places are male or female-little boys can go in with their mothers, infant age boys can get away with it but junior aged boys and above need to go into the appropriate toilet. I do sympathise, I was a lone parent with a DS and I used to hover outside, ready to open the door and shout 'have you finished DS' if necessary and make sure that he knew he could shout loud and clear if an adult molested him. He managed fine and he just wouldn't have gone into the ladies with me past 6yrs old. (if it was derelict ,and dodgy looking, in a park I would have sent him in the bushes instead.)

The ladies could be just as dangerous. As a woman on my own I went to self defence classes, one of the exercises was how to fight off an attacker in a toilet cubicle. I have never needed to do it, luckily.

Perhaps sending your DS to judo or similar would be a good idea.

The sure thing is that the answer is not to say-'the world isn't safe unless you are with mother-in the ladies toilet'.

letthembe · 29/05/2011 13:50

At the end of the day, if a kid has got to go a kid has to go. My DS would prefer an outdoor wee to any toilet, even in his own home, always has and probably always will.

Niecie · 29/05/2011 14:10

Seeker - What do you mean about this thread not being about the attitude of adult women? The OP says she gets annoyed when boys use the female toilets. I think it is very much about her attitude. Asking what the proper etiquette is - the proper etiquette should be you let your boys go to the mens when they are ready and able to cope with it. What the hell has it got to do with her anyway? She has DDs - it is irrelevant to her what other people's sons do surely, or is she planning to approach boys who are older than 'etiquette' dictates and ask them to leave?

Maternelle · 29/05/2011 14:26

This is such a Brit thing. In a lot of European countries, it really doesn't matter so much. Unisex toilets are the way forward.

exoticfruits · 29/05/2011 14:39

I don't think that an adult woman is going to be too fussed-she does go in a separate cubicle. It is the boy who should be fussed being forced in by his mother!
I think that a little girl might not like it-she is 7yrs old, goes in on her own-she doesn't expect to see 9yr old boys. They have separate toilets at school.

A 9 yr old boy couldn't go into the ladies on his own, he would feel very awkward and someone might say something along the lines of 'the gents is next door'. He gets away with it because he is with the mother. If I ever saw a mother with these older boys (without SN) I might say something. I never ever see them-so goodness knows where you all go!