to think that basic social skills have for the most part gone out the window

[ohboob]

I recently joined a craft group. I've been about 5/6 times. Everyone is very nice and friendly. They are all intelligent, university educated, mostly married, kind people. And yet every single time I go I get very brief hello's from all of them but no one ever says 'how are you' or asks the new people in the group their names or introduces themselves. I've seen 3 people start coming since I joined and all have had the same reaction. I find it so rude. They literally just sit there. My first week another new person joined and despite the fact that it was my first evening I was the only person to welcome her and ask her how she was, and how long she had been doing her craft for, where she was from, etc. etc.

Surely that is just basic manners (and social etiquette) to say hello and introduce yourself, so that the new person feels welcome? And then to ask them a bit about themselves and maybe tell them what they are working on. There are anywhere from 5 people in the group to 15 each week.

I took a friend with my last night who was really interested in joining and she had the same reaction. People looked up and said a brief hello and then just carried on working and chatting amongst themselves. It takes place in a pub and the whole point of the group is supposed to be the social side. My friend said that if she had turned up by herself she wouldn't return because it felt so unwelcoming. The very first week I joined it was the same and if I wasn't chatty and comfortable with just jumping in and making conversation I could have easily sat there all evening with no one talking to me at all and without knowing a single name of anyone there.

The funny thing is that if I make conversation and ask people how they are they start chatting and all are very friendly, so it boggles me as to why they are so rude initially. Do we just not learn manners anymore? I've come across this problem a lot with my generation (late twenties, early thirties) and it is just not how I was brought up. Very few people seem to have the basic social skills. Ironically one of the women last night was saying that she was terrified when she first joined because it's daunting walking into a group of strangers (as I found it when I joined) but she still wasn't welcoming to my friend who was in the same position as she had once been in. Why do people not connect that if they have found it hard, then others will and they need to make the effort to smile and say hello.

Gah! This is really bugging me. I don't know if it is shyness or rudeness.

Get them pissed and they'll talk to everybody.
YANBU I have experienced similar situations many times. I don't know, maybe people are too self conscious/absorbed?

Maybe they just want to get their heads down and make their crafts!

I wouldn't necessarily start up the whole, what's your name and where do you come from lark but I would give a friendly genuine smile!

Some people just don't, I'm not sure that makes them rude or is a sign of lack of social skills.

I completely agree with you. It I'd basic social skills that don't seem to have been ingrained in a lot of people (I am same age as you). It particularly irks me at weddings and other formal social events of that sort. My parents taught us basic manners etc and it's simp ingrained now.

After I met dh I realised one of the things I liked about him us that he had been taught the same basic niceties.

You will get a whole lot of peoe saying, "how do you know the others aren't simply shy?!" and being all indignant. I think that's s complete cop out.

Mostly, I think people are just scared because they don't know Joe to behave. I am grateful all the time my parents taught me these skills and will be ensuring my dc learn them too.

Clearly, I did not learn to proof read my own writing though!

YANBU. This kind of graceful social interaction is long gone. People prefer to stick in their horrid little cliques, shooting sidelong glances at the 'snooty' interlopers, and then come and post on MN about it. The art of welcoming someone into a group, of putting people at ease, of being unselfconscious and charming....well. It's lovely when you find it!

And don't get me started on bores who drone on endlessly about themselves and who have never learned any kind of self-editing or conversational restraint. Completely infuriating.

I find this really interesting because I suffer from dyspraxia and am therefore on the autism spectrum and born without any innate social skills. I find it incredibly stressful to meet new people in case I say or do something wrong. Maybe I now don't need to worry quiet so much!

Bloody hell, pressure much YusMilady (apt name)? Welcoming, putting at ease, being unselfconcious and charming, self-edited, restrained, and unboring?

I'm afraid I don't embody all of those qualities, and the thought that I would be expected to be all of that would be enough to terrify me into total rigour.

I agree with you and think it's a shame. These social niceties used to bridge the gap felt by the shyer or more awkward among us, on two fronts- if a host (or existing group or whetever) opened up the conversation like this it gave an opening for further conversation; it also gave the shyer people something to start a conversation with. Socially acceptable on both sides, no awkwardness.

It shows most in larger situations, I think., such as weddings, parties and so on. It sometimes feels that you're thrown to the wolves almost- certainly very daunting. I have been to one wedding where everyone had lovely social skills- new people were introduced to other guests with whom they might have something in common, no-one pontificated at length on their chosen subject etc- it was wonderful.

YANBU - I think this is rudeness. I am very shy in real life, and yet always force myself to talk to people in a social situation as you just have to as an adult. I don't have children myself yet but know a few people who won't go to parent and toddler groups on their own (well, with their child, obviously!) as everyone is very 'cliquey' and won't talk to them, which I think is very sad.

I do think it's a generational thing. My mum goes to a craft group every week and she says a few people have come on their own since she joined, and they're always welcomed, so they have become regular attenders. All the women are over 60.

I on the other hand moved away to university at 18. On the first night we were encouraged to go to the student union bar. I went with a girl from my halls, and we saw another couple of girls from our corridor. We went up to them, said hello, how are you settling in, etc. The girls said hello and pretended to be friendly for a minute then blatantly turned their backs on us and started a conversation with someone else. Bloody rude! These girls actually turned out to be on my course, and another couple of my friends thought they were lovely, but although I was always friendly to them I could never forget how rude they had been on our first meeting!

YANBU, and I totally know what you mean.

I gave up on toddler groups for this very reason, I got utterly fed up with being the only one who would introduce myself or make conversation. I also find that almost nobody goes to things on their own so they all have a 'ready made friend' to talk to - and they aren't about to bother with anyone new!

YANBU. I couldn't agree more. I joined a netball team last summer, not only to play some competitive sport, but also to maybe make some likeminded friends outside of my usual circle. I shouldn't have bothered. I was the oldest there at 36, the rest in their 20s, and none of them had any social skills, I would try and make conversation, but it was like pulling teeth. I started to dread going as I found the whole experience quite stressful. It is a generational thing I'm sure. Having said that, in the city based office I work in, nobody even says 'good morning'! It's as if people are concerned about appearing too 'nice'. Ridiculous.

I am so relieved by your responses! It's not just me!
And Shannara you really don't need to worry, honestly!!
The thing is I'm very aware that some people are just painfully shy and if I can see that that is the issue then I try to put people at their ease and am happy to do all the talking (I have talking down to a fine art. Even jabber away in my sleep) but it can't be that everyone is shy.

YANBU I have noiced many people like this....is there someone who'se "in charge"? I would mention it!
Something could be done...an ice breaker or something....maybe insigating a "crafts away chat" at the end for half an hour...when people have a drink and talk.

That's a good idea mumbling. The person who started it is lovely but isn't often there, but perhaps if I talk to her about it she can nominate a long standing member to be the one to say hello when a new member joins. I just don't want to offend her if they are all friends as I only just joined and need all the friends I can get

ohboob I see what you mean, I am suprised you had the prolemato with university types/ I suppose it is not everyone that does the introduction routine. I usually say "hello, I am Scousy Fogarty and I do Mumsnet."

"I thought they were all ladies. " Careful you dont know what I am til you know me better".....Oh, say no more, I get the picture.

I went to a belly dancing group for about three months last year, and barely spoke to anyone, as half of the women there wouldn't even make eye contact with me, never mind smile or say hello if our eyes actually did happen to meet! I went with my sister, who can normally talk to just about anybody, but even she struggled, and so we ended up just standing/sitting in a corner every week, with everyone else in their own little groups in other corners. I don't know if age had anything to do with it, my sister and I are both in our early twenties, everyone else there was late twenties or older, with most probably being around the mid- to late-forties mark.

I thought this was going to be about texting or FB or something, and have a little rant about "the youth of today"...

I have seen what you are talking about, and I don't understand it. . I will always put myself out to be welcoming. I am early-40s and I think there has been a shift away from putting the needs of other people above your own when the situation requires it towards a more "rights-based" agenda, which results in more self-absorption which appears rude to many of us older people.

I think the basic tenet should be to treat people as you yourself would wish to be treated, which I think means in certain situations, putting yourself out a bit more.

BTW, was being tongue-in- cheek about youth of today, above

Totally agree with you op. This is one of my bugbears ...

Feeling self-conscious is just that ... being conscious of yourself, rather than of others. Very selfish. I don't find social situations exactly easy but I was taught that it was polite to 'earn your dinner' as it were.

I run a cultural interest group and invite all the volunteers/potential volunteers to my home every year ... most of them station themselves around the walls saying nothing ... leaving me to do a presentation plus act as host etc etc. For once, thank God, last year, a member turned up who had the grace to introduce himself to everyone and everyone to each other, he started to help pour out wine and serve the food etc etc. It made such a difference - was ecstatically grateful to him as it such a slog normally. Sad it is such a rarity ...

I agree with everyone.

I think it just isn't taught any more. I teach my dc to be friendly and welcoming, we all need to learn.

Yes, agree with Hully . It needs to be taught.

At the dc's old school they played sports against other schools, and each had to take a visiting child in for te after, get them tea, and entertain them. Great training.

YANBU. There are a few reasons for that. Some people are very cliquey and are just unwilling to socialise with anyone whom they deem does not "fit in" their circle. For some it can be a form of selfishness. A sort of unwillingness to do any more than the least possible effort required. I have always been a rather shy person, but I force myself to speak up in social situations. It does take effort to do this, yes, and some people just can't be bothered. It can also be due to social phobia though - and for people who do really suffer from social phobia then they can really appear very standoffish and cold but its not something which stems from selfishness. I've found that with many people of the older generation, they tend to be less like that and more welcoming and understanding. Like it could also be an age issue - people grow wiser as they age and are more understanding and empathetic so when they see a newcomer obviously not knowing anyone else in the group and no one bothering to talk to them and welcome them to join in, they will make the first move and try to make the newcomers feel included.

At the dc's old school they played sports against other schools, and each had to take a visiting child in for te after, get them tea, and entertain them. I think that's a good idea to tell the children they must take the visiting children in for tea after and entertain them! When I went to primary school ages ago, our school started operating a "buddy system" when I was in my last year of primary where every child in the first year would be given a "buddy" from the last year of primary. To be honest, I was a bit of a crap buddy! I had no social skills whatsoever in that department (of making someone I don't know very well feel welcome) and I never had a buddy myself when I was new to primary school, as that system wasn't set up yet. The teachers didn't seem bothered either. They didn't teach us or even give us examples or ideas of what to do with our young "buddies" and it was a bit hit-and-miss. Some people turned out to be great "buddies" to the younger ones. Others didn't bother. Certain social skills really need to be taught. You can't just leave people to it. They might never pick it up.