to think that basic social skills have for the most part gone out the window

[ohboob]

I recently joined a craft group. I've been about 5/6 times. Everyone is very nice and friendly. They are all intelligent, university educated, mostly married, kind people. And yet every single time I go I get very brief hello's from all of them but no one ever says 'how are you' or asks the new people in the group their names or introduces themselves. I've seen 3 people start coming since I joined and all have had the same reaction. I find it so rude. They literally just sit there. My first week another new person joined and despite the fact that it was my first evening I was the only person to welcome her and ask her how she was, and how long she had been doing her craft for, where she was from, etc. etc.

Surely that is just basic manners (and social etiquette) to say hello and introduce yourself, so that the new person feels welcome? And then to ask them a bit about themselves and maybe tell them what they are working on. There are anywhere from 5 people in the group to 15 each week.

I took a friend with my last night who was really interested in joining and she had the same reaction. People looked up and said a brief hello and then just carried on working and chatting amongst themselves. It takes place in a pub and the whole point of the group is supposed to be the social side. My friend said that if she had turned up by herself she wouldn't return because it felt so unwelcoming. The very first week I joined it was the same and if I wasn't chatty and comfortable with just jumping in and making conversation I could have easily sat there all evening with no one talking to me at all and without knowing a single name of anyone there.

The funny thing is that if I make conversation and ask people how they are they start chatting and all are very friendly, so it boggles me as to why they are so rude initially. Do we just not learn manners anymore? I've come across this problem a lot with my generation (late twenties, early thirties) and it is just not how I was brought up. Very few people seem to have the basic social skills. Ironically one of the women last night was saying that she was terrified when she first joined because it's daunting walking into a group of strangers (as I found it when I joined) but she still wasn't welcoming to my friend who was in the same position as she had once been in. Why do people not connect that if they have found it hard, then others will and they need to make the effort to smile and say hello.

Gah! This is really bugging me. I don't know if it is shyness or rudeness.

I flirt with chat away to anyone and everyone. I don't even think twice about it. For me, it's normal. Lots of people though remark on it

I'm in PR so I suppose it's part of my job - or maybe I'm just super-suitable for my job.. I chat for a living

The topic of this thread was brought home to me last night. My friend organised drinks in a pub to celebrate his 32nd birthday. Now this guy is sociable and friendly and knows a lot of people, but there were only 9 people there. Most of his friends from his work, sport and just general life "couldn't make it". Same thing last weekend, when another friend and his girlfriend organised a BBQ. 5 people there. They invited perhaps 30 or so people. It puts you off doing things.

As for shy people. All of us have a very shy friend (a man) and have just about had it up to here with inviting him to stuff because, on the rare occasions he does bother to turn up, he is obviously desperate to get away, won't buy drinks when you buy him one, and looks very bored when you talk to him. Theres a very fine line between shyness and rudeness and not making any effort at times, and being shy is all very well when you are young but no so charming when you are old enough to at least fake it til you make it. Although I agree most of the deliberately and rudely unsociable tend to be women, probably out of jealousy, and that they probably pressurise their more sociable other halves from doing so much. Some women can be very high drama and needy.

YANBU - I'm totally with you OP - I've had this at toddler groups, swimming lessons, conferences at work, where I could be sat next to somebody all day and they'd not open their mouth. I'm quite shy but I'll think, well this can't go on, its ridiculous, somebody has to say something and it'll be me. I'll usually make a comment or try a funny remark and hope it will open up a conversation. Sometimes I still get stonewalled though. .

I nearly didn't go back to baby club because of this, I sat their as a new panicky mum and this cliquey group just ignored me and then sat there arranging that afternoon's walk in the park (without inviting me). I could never do that to anyone!
Now however I know just to invite myself, no-one ever seems to just pop in and say hello now so I do!

I'm quite friendly, but I was never taught how to behave at social gatherings by my parents eg. introducing new people to other guests with whom they might have something in common, so it doesn't come naturally to me. I really have to think about it. Does anyone know of a book I could buy which would give me tips on this sort of thing? I almost need to drill it into myself so it becomes second nature in social situations and so I can pass it on to my daughters.

That's a good question - none of this stuff was taught to me, either. My parents never 'entertained' as such - the odd NYE party with mainly rellies as guests, the men going to the pub and the women staying in and getting drunk on sherry chatting. Then more drinking and shouted conversations when the sexes got together later.
All a good laugh, but it hardly sets an example for when you grow up and have to operate in different circles.

My parents never taught this stuff to me, either, but over the years I've just taught myself, mostly by trial and error and copying others whose style I admired.

That's true for me also, was just commenting on how your upbringing can make you a bit slower to come to the table (literally!) when it comes to social interactions.
It may be the same case with a lot of the ignorant people around, only they're quite happy and satisfied in their ineptitude, and don't see it as a problem.

YANBU. I totally agree with you. For this reason I have struggled to find genuine friends in the city where we moved 5 years ago despite many attempts to get out there and meet people. Was beginning to think it was something wrong with me until moving to Australia for a year where I found people to be SO much more friendly, open and welcoming. I left Australia with many close friends who I regard as friends for life. Now back in the UK and struggling again :(

Agree with op.
Im really socially isolated,no friends no closeness of any kind, coming my way, but i always tryt to be kind to people. A 5 min conversation on the bus might be the highlight of the day.
Ive noticed that even older people who you might break the ice with with a comment about bus times etc will only talk about themselves Their friends ,what they are doing . Not even one polite reciprical question.
It seems the general civilty of being around people has disappeared. Students tend to be nicer( if they are by themselves) but that is because they have hadto make the effort themselves.

Reading all of this is so depressing. Now I know that people think I'm selfish because of something I can't help

I don't need people the same way other people do. Friends are nice, but I'm perfectly happy without them, and in fact since DS was born I've resented the fact that it makes random people talk to me in the street and forced me into the hell that is "idle chit-chat". It's physically painful for me to stand there wracking my brain for some banality to fill the silence.

Still force myself to go to baby group though. None of the mothers like me since I don't match my "jolly-looking fat girl" exterior without exhausting more energy than I have, and thus they can't pidgeon-hole me.

I hate grown-ups. Anyone under the age of 10 is much easier and more interesting to engage with.
Or on the internet. I met most of my best friends online, since it's much easier to find people who I actually have something in common with.

i think rudeness is contagious. quite often i'll turn up at a toddler group with a spring in my step, determined to talk to people, and after a few 'Hi's get ignored, and my polite compliments about people's kids aren't returned I end up doing what everyone else does - ignoring people I don't already know. When you're sat in a room full of stony faced women it's very easy to become one without even trying.

Er, thanks LeQueen! Nah, just teasing - your phrasing made me giggle, as DH and I have a running joke about a particular group of people we know who say "well done you" in a condescending way - but I know you were giving genuine praise!

I must hasten to add that I was never "socially handicapped", just lacking in confidence.

To the shy posters I would say that if you can ultimately break away from whatever's keeping you back in social situations, it is immensely liberating. Especially when you start to believe (if this is your problem) that actually you are a jolly nice and interesting person. And that other people are usually nice and jolly interesting, too.

Hussy - that's why I avoid toddler groups!

I find fiddling with playdough is a good icebreaker at toddler groups. Likewise if they have big paper and crayons - I drew Munch's The Scream the other week, got lots of people who couldn't resist coming to comment. You don't have to be creative or talented to be interesting but showing you aren't scared of a blank piece of paper seems to be attractive. I'm certainly drawn to people like that too.