to think that basic social skills have for the most part gone out the window

[ohboob]

I recently joined a craft group. I've been about 5/6 times. Everyone is very nice and friendly. They are all intelligent, university educated, mostly married, kind people. And yet every single time I go I get very brief hello's from all of them but no one ever says 'how are you' or asks the new people in the group their names or introduces themselves. I've seen 3 people start coming since I joined and all have had the same reaction. I find it so rude. They literally just sit there. My first week another new person joined and despite the fact that it was my first evening I was the only person to welcome her and ask her how she was, and how long she had been doing her craft for, where she was from, etc. etc.

Surely that is just basic manners (and social etiquette) to say hello and introduce yourself, so that the new person feels welcome? And then to ask them a bit about themselves and maybe tell them what they are working on. There are anywhere from 5 people in the group to 15 each week.

I took a friend with my last night who was really interested in joining and she had the same reaction. People looked up and said a brief hello and then just carried on working and chatting amongst themselves. It takes place in a pub and the whole point of the group is supposed to be the social side. My friend said that if she had turned up by herself she wouldn't return because it felt so unwelcoming. The very first week I joined it was the same and if I wasn't chatty and comfortable with just jumping in and making conversation I could have easily sat there all evening with no one talking to me at all and without knowing a single name of anyone there.

The funny thing is that if I make conversation and ask people how they are they start chatting and all are very friendly, so it boggles me as to why they are so rude initially. Do we just not learn manners anymore? I've come across this problem a lot with my generation (late twenties, early thirties) and it is just not how I was brought up. Very few people seem to have the basic social skills. Ironically one of the women last night was saying that she was terrified when she first joined because it's daunting walking into a group of strangers (as I found it when I joined) but she still wasn't welcoming to my friend who was in the same position as she had once been in. Why do people not connect that if they have found it hard, then others will and they need to make the effort to smile and say hello.

Gah! This is really bugging me. I don't know if it is shyness or rudeness.

...shyness can stop you... (sorry, couldn't help myself Silk)

I think this is a problem with us brits. I have lived abroad most of my life and have found most people pretty friendly. When i came back to this country i was puzzled by the lack of social skills. I think people are very cliquey and not used to having to go out and make new friends.

YANBU!
I'm naturally a shy person, but when in a social situation I step up and make conversation. Sometimes this sparks others to chat too....but sometimes they just one word answer, and then stand there looking at you! Conversations are a two way street people!!! GRRRR!
I'm getting better at making small talk because I have moved to new cities/countries several times so HAVE to talk to people to meet friends - it seems many people I meet here still live in or near where they grew up so have school/uni friends and are simply uninterested in meeting someone new?
Going to a wedding next weekend where I only know dp, so will have lots of chance to practise harassing talking to people. Good times!

Someone asked how you teach these skills. I know with my grandmother she always threatened a wallop if someone asked me how I was and I didn't reply and try and make conversation back. I was very firmly told I was being rude. My parents just encouraged me to speak up if I wasn't doing so enough without the wallop. I guess my mum was so natural at being welcoming and doing introductions I had a good model in her.

I'm still astonished how many people here have the same experiences. I would agree with what some people have said that other countries are better. It seems to be particularly bad in England. Goodness knows how we change that.

But no wonder there are huge problems with loneliness amongst so many people in the UK.

Hello OP :)

Are you in London? South East?

People are DEFINITELY less chatty there.

YANBU - I notice it often - and I am shy in new groups but try to be friendly. I joined an evening class in the autumn, a group of about a dozen (coincidentally all women, aged I guess late 20s to perhaps 60s); we knew we'd probably meet every termtime week for a year, doing solo singing! - so hardly shrinking violets you'd think! and yet no-one was saying hello as they came in. I said hi and made a couple of remarks and felt I was really sticking my neck out. After a couple of weeks everyone was much friendlier.

But I have also noticed that older people, over 70s say, seem to be much better at chatting, are less self-conscious maybe. Or did they learn casual conversation skills when young?

I have always lived in London so all my obs based on this, not representative of all UK I know.

It is a British thing, but it's only British in Britain. British expats overseas are much friendlier/less cliquey than when in the UK. I attribute this to the fact that expat social groups are very fragile as people are always moving on, which means that everyone is always in the market for new friends. You cant afford to sit on your laurels

I think it might be because it is a loose informal group where nobody is in charge - with typical British reserve nobody quite feels it is their place to be the 'welcoming party' - for fear that others might think 'who does she think she is, the bloody chair?' I am quite shy but do always make an effort to introduce people if I think they may not have met, even though it can make me blush - it is making a slight statement that you are in some position of power or control.
I don't think it is deliberate rudeness - anybody that antisocial would just sit at home and do their crafts alone. I can see if the group got big, noisy and chatty it might p some people off and be hostile to newcomers, but this doesn't seem to be the case, so probably just that nobody wants to step forward and stand out from the others.

Hello Curry, I am well, thank you for asking. How are you?
It's not actually the south east or London. It's actually a very friendly area in general here; people say hello to eachother in the street, etc. I can imagine it's 10 times worse in London!

I am a dreadfully shy Londoner. I also really struggle with making small talk.

However, because of this it makes me aware of other people and how they might be feeling joining a new group. So I will always talk to a new person and introduce them to the others (if I can remember their names). Mind you, once I have introduce them to someone else they will normally find them more interesting than me and never talk to me again. Not that it bothers me though.

I have to admit its probably a British thing not to be so welcoming to strangers. I spent a lot of my years in Singapore and it just never happened. Somehow, with my shyness, I managed to make lots of friends because they just come up to you and speak to you if they see you are alone. When I came back to England I could really feel the need to start initiating more myself. And yet when I meet Italians (I love them, in general!) and Greeks, a lot of them are just so naturally warm and welcoming. Its really a cultural thing as well, yes. I'd hate to stereotype though. There are some really lovely warm British people I've met. Just not that many...

I also second what TheBride said about the difference between British expats who have lived abroad for a considerable number of years, and Brits who have never lived anywhere other than in England for most of their lives.

I am very well thanks :o

Have to disagree with the mainstream here as I don't think it's just a British thing (am not British, btw!). I lived in Germany and it took a lot of work to make friends there and break the ice. Germans just don't really do small talk. They even use the English phrase 'Small Talk' in German as they don't really have an equivalent for it. The most friendly people I've ever been around were always Spanish. I don't speak any Spanish but they never cared about that and were always inclusive and friendly and good at socialising. Americans, also, are very well socialised and excellent at making introductions, making strangers feel at ease etc.

So British people aren't alone in being reserved! Maybe I'm influenced by the fact that i live in Scotland but Scottish people, at least, are certainly friendlier than Germans and will chat and pass the time of day. I think the 'expat' lifestyle can be deceptive. Group of foreigners living abroad are always friendlier than locals as they've had the experience of breaking out of their comfort zone and having to make new friends.

InMyPrime I found Germans friendly enough when I lived there. They do do some small talk but not quite as gossipy as the Brits ie it will have some purpose about work or housing or similar. However they socialise by organising group activities a lot, and if you get yourself invited along to these (which is not hard), you get emeshed very quickly in their social life. I had some lovely Alpine walking weekend trips, joined the local athletics and swimming clubs and hence was invited to lots of outings that way and also a triathlon club. It also amazed me to find out how popular it was there to do singing as a hobby and go to a local youth hostel in a group to sing!

Scottish people are in general friendly but tbh I find London much more friendly than some places on the East Coast of Scotland - in London, people will chat to you in shops, in railway stations and so on!

Afraid I disagree about British expats abroad!! Am a member of a tots group abroad and the British women are extremely cliquey and unfriendly unfortunately.

Does anyone else go off into comedy monologues when talking to unresponsive/boring people? Just to fill the gap? I listen to myself gabble on, thinking you're drawing that charicature of yourself and family again and it's bloody wasted on them, they are the ones with the problem, it's not your responsibility to entertain them. Yet still I do it...

I totally agree with halfcaff, I think a lot of the time people are scared to be too forward for fear of being seen as pushy - 'Oooh who does she think she is?' - that sort of thing. I'd hate that nearly as much as I'd hate to be thought rude.

Oh god, I've learnt not to greet apparently new people with a merry 'Hi, what do you do/how did you find this group?' because I am shit at recognising people and names, so would find I'd done it to the same person several times.

Somehow I doubt that made them feel a valued member of the group.

Not so much 'Who does she think she is?' as 'Who on earth are you anyway?'

I can easily chat with most people - but I work in a public facing sales role so it's my 'work' persona alot of the time that makes the small talk. I am also very rubbish at names but can remember useless facts like the year they got married/their dog died/favorite holiday destination.

In real life it has taken me a good few years to negotiate the playground cliques - now I go on the basic principle that smile at everyone a friendly hello goes some way to breaking the ice.

I think alot of small talk now is done via text - I have a couple of friends (mums from school) who we broke the ice via text ie arranging meet ups or drinks etc.

As you also note, I just don't see what the point would be of joining a group, of which the primary purpose is socialising and meeting new people, if you simply don't engage with anyone. It's very strange. I know what you mean about those types that join with their security blanket friends. Are we not grown-up enough to step out and go to things on our own sometimes??

I'm actually ridiculously glad to read this thread -- I'm not the only one who's encountered this, yay!

Since coming to the UK a few years back, I have encountered this situation so, so many times. It used to really upset me, I was convinced I would never make any friends here, and I would get so homesick. Eventually I realised it wasn't personal and more or less got used to it.

But I still find it really odd, and sometimes really uncomfortable.

I am naturally introverted myself, but quite outgoing in company -- I just feel like, what's the point in being out if you're not going to be social? Like, what's the point in doing crafts at the pub if you're not going to be social with people? Just do them in your living room then...

Seriously, I wish I'd read this thread five years ago

ha, x-post Jeanette

Other factors to note:
Stereotyped British inhibition re expressing oneself
Craft groups being such therapy for mental illness you have to expect some oddness . Mind you ours is full of such folk and we are v friendly and openminded because we are aware of what a big step it can be for some.