To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

Anna's point of view is absolutely correct. Complacency and assumptions are as dangerous as the water itself.

And to criticise Anna for being rude and insulting! that's a joke

ohnoshedittant unlike you I did grow up with a strong swimming culture and as a result I have been aghast at some of the comments on this thread. Apologies for the stupid assumptions comment - that came across very strong and I apologise for the upset I have caused you.

Apologies if it's been said before, but look at the Australian statistics for children drowning in back yard pools. They are terrifying and 2/3 yos seem to be most at risk. I'm not sure if the saddest story this year is that of the 2yo TWINS who both drowned in their grandparents pool or the 6yo who was cycling (yes, really) around the pool when she fell in and her clothes got caught in the wheels so she was trapped. My 8yo strong swimmer is not even allowed to be inside the fenced pool area without adult supervision. Please, please supervise all children around pools.

our local pool lets 7yos swim without parents during public swimming.

it's in the rules and everything.

but then the swimming lessons are run by the red cross, and include water safety/ rescue and first aid from the get go, so i think it's much more accepted that young children will be sensible and learn about water safety as they learn to swim. hence the low age limit for unaccompanied swimming generally.

my 9yo and 11yo go to the pool on their own regularly. if they are swimming on their own (ie without an adult) they have to have passed their deep water test before they are allowed out of the shallow end.

my 7yo isn't allowed to swim alone as she has cerebral palsy and swims like a brick. but if she was nt there would be no reason why she couldn't go with her siblings whilst i stayed at home and had a nice cup of tea.

i'd check supervision at the neighbours before i let the 9yo go though, only because unsupervised 9yos can be idiots. (oddly, the lifeguards at the pool know this )

If your 3 year old doesn't wander unsupervised from house to house then I don't see the relevence of your comment about the 3 houses only being separated by hedges. If you are supervising her then it should be irrelevent whether there is a hedge or a 9 foot fence.
Hedges can also be very robust. My hawthorne and sloe hedge is far harder to get through than many fences.
When the option was available we always holidayed with a pool, but our kids were never left unsupervised when young. I love swimming pools.
When I was a kid our paddling pool that was about 10 inches deep was often left up for a couple of weeks. We knew not to go in it unless a parent was there when young.

There are 3 pools in my road, all built within the last ten years. Each one has a safety cover which means adults can walk on it when covered with no risk. Children do not swim unless invited, my boys are 14 and 12 and do not swim unless I'm there, no one swims at ours unless they are are supervised.

What's the problem?

"I would not let your 9yo go without "adult supervision", by which I mean, if other parents are not in the garden, you would need to be in yours and listening hard and checking regularly"

I said this earlier - I thought the pool was next door and half visible through a hedge. Now I think that advice is too lax - possibly I was trying not to be too scary. I would require more robust supervision than this and have done so with my own children.

In answer to your question Anna, yes, my grandfather does live alone.I'm not sure of the relevance of the question about neighbours. Yes, he does have a neighbour, though their house isn't slap bang close (this is rural France) and what is the relevance of that anyway? Should he invite his neighbour over each time he decides to swim?! My gf does not have any medical conditions, but he's in his 80s and yes, he could have a heart attack or a stroke- but then he could have one anyway, while gardening or walking upstairs or indeed taking a bath! Should he not live alone?!
Anna - I am not disagreeing with the safety aspects of swimming for kids, but I find this assertion about not swimming alone for ANYONE a bit bizarre and unworkable. Yes, technically at age 18 a person can make their own 'risk assessment' but I notice you studiously avoid answering the question of when a person can swim alone. Should they be supervised at age 17 and then left to make their own decision at 18? You seem to disapprove of anyone swimming alone ever anyway

The single most important thing is that OP fences her garden well. If her 3yr old wandered out, there are dangers beyond that pool - any garden pond/water feature, areas with weedkiller, shears and other garden tools, still-hot BBQs etc

i am a teacher. i have been a teacher for much longer than i have been a parent to my 9 and 7 yo dds.

obviously, i am much more laid back as a parent than i am as a teacher, in certain situations eg my kids climbing trees, playing out alone in our (safe quiet) street,

however, i think that 15 plus years of being 'accountable' for other peoples' children's safety in many different situations has given me a different perspective.

swimming pools? no room for comlancency there, i'm afraid. i'm with gooseberry et al, on that one.

let me ask those of you who wouldnt surpervise your teens in a pool in the garden....

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if those teens were at a school pool, unsupervised, what would you say? and what if a tragedy occurred- would it be just a sad accident, or would you say it was avoidable, had superviison been in place? Would you hold the teacher accountable?

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Of course he should go - I imagine you talk to your neighbour ?

Once you have been assured the kids will be supervised I really don't see the problem.

What noonar said.

One of my teenagers is about to go on a D of E expedition with friends. There will be 2 groups of them camping overnight near a stream, no teacher.
They might get lost, they might find a deep pool to swim in, they might drown.
They will however probably have a great time (if it doesn't pour down) and enjoy their independance.
You do have to give them the freedom to behave responsibly sometimes.
I used to do loads of dangerous things as a kid.
You supervise them when young and then gradually let them have more independance, that's parenting.

Yes behind Australians teachers are the best at knowing you can never be too careful with water.

Just to say, I think there is a big difference between two sensible teenagers and more than two. Two are more aware of each other.

You cant punish your 9 year old for having a 3 year old sibling. You cant hold him back, and exclude your older child from playing with neighboring children, because he has a younger sibling. That sibling is YOUR responsibility, and yours alone. Not his. This means that YOU watch out for the three year old, in your garden, while HE plays with children his age, whether inside or outside a pool, as long as they are adequately supervised.

In contrast with the US link posted by Mopsa earlier, here are the UK statistics (2005 latest year available for some reason): link

US drowning stats are very heavily skewed by the fact that a large percentage of African-Americans have never learned to swim for both cultural reasons and lack of opportunity - this results in a tragically high number of summer drowning deaths, particularly among African-American children.

I'm not saying that pool safety isn't important, but illustrating the risks of drowning using statistics from the US is not helpful.

what is all this about Australians being some sort of experts on water???

Hogsback: it is helpful when they relate to garden pools. UK statistics will relate more to the sea and public swimming baths.

ST: Most / many houses in Australia have pools. Therefore they have experience in pool safety. I can't believe you don't know this.

I have rather tired of the specious argument that unless you let your child swim without supervision you are suffocatingly overprotective and liable to raise nervous children.

In that case Australia is a nation of neurotic nervous wrecks and I am a large banana.

I am still waiting for a response from Anna. As has been discussed, drowning is a silent killer. People can therefore slip, bang their head, get into difficulties - and this can happen at any age. So where do you draw the line about lone swimming? Thinking back, I swam alone in my grandfathers pool, pre children, when I stayed there with dh and he was having a siesta indoors. No doubt that makes me foolish

I am btw totally in agreement about the safety and supervision of children aspects and this has been a (mostly) interesting thread; its a pity anna's posts have been rather patronising though.

Well, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, only 11.7% of homes in Australia have pools actually.

Not really a majority there. :)

I can believe you didnt know this.

My cousin drowned in a swimming pool at the age 18 months, I almost drowned in the ocean age 2yo, myself. Does that give me a moral high ground to comment?
I come from Southern California, we have many outdoor swim pools, a swimming pool culture. It's now the law to have them fenced off. But they weren't hardly ever fenced off when I was little, having grown up there doesn't make me a more safety-conscious person.

Law to fence them off make sense in SoCal. Back yards are often very insecure otherwise, the pools are down at ground level so easy to get into, the climate is such that outdoor year-round swimming is attractive. Large Pools, often not easily overlooked from the house, and 6' or deeper is quite common.

It's totally different in the UK. Few, Relatively shallow and small pools, filled only a few months of the year, with ladders one has to climb up to gain access. Typically in small gardens so easily viewed & possible to hear the activity, by neighbours & property owners alike. Garden ponds in the UK are much more of a drowning risk than swimming pools.

OP, if it was my 9yo I'd let him go play & swim, but obviously only when invited and I'd probably chat to the owner about safety aspects. Would you be just as worried if they had a large garden pond, or a garden that backed onto a canal?

Surely the parents of the swimming pool (so to speak) have established rules and so on for the use of their pool. And if the pool area is not fenced off and the gardens in the neighbourhood not particularly secure (in that kids can wander from one to the other), then it needs to be fenced off pdq because their rules will not stand up to kids potentially wandering in and coming to harm.
My BF lives in the US where there is a strong litigious culture. Not only is their pool fenced off, and locked, but there are notices up, just as at a public pool here. No-one swims unless she or her DH are there, and her kids and friends are mid-teens. She also has taken out liability insurance, because fences, rules and notices notwithstanding, if anyone has an accident on her property, she's responsible.
I'm surprised that over here people aren't automatically taking similar precautions.

If my 9 year old was a good swimmer I would let him go to the pool. If he wasn't I would let him go if I was supervising or if I knew the person supervising would do it very closely.

I know water is very dangerous for young children, but I can also understand someone not fencing their pool off and seeing it as the parent's responsibility to supervise their children. After all unlike Australia, most children in our country are very closely supervised.

You do need to make sure that the 3 year old can not get to the pool by themselves however you achieve this. It is very dangerous for children this age.