To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

Oh right. So we have to believe you? Ok. I see now. Unless, of course, the person who posted them would come back and say whether you yourself are being mendacious.

er no you have to believe HQ

get over yourself

you weren't worth talking to for the nanosecond you were on the thread that's for sure

LMAO!!!!

Goosey, did you not print them off, to put in a folder, entitled "times wot I woz abuzed on mumsnet" ??

I was just wondering, idly, as you do, whether the poster that got deleted had screen shots? Wouldn't that be great?

Fingers crossed huh?

LMAO LMAO LMAO

Oh please, this is hurting !!!!!!!

If you want some more...

sniggers

oh dearie dearie me.

Tragic but funny

Hi all,

This thread has gone somewhat off topic and turned into a bit of a bunfight.
Can we remind you all of our Troll hunting policy and ask that if you have concerns about a particular poster, please contact HQ via the report button, rather than thrashing it all out on the boards.

Best
MNHQ

It's a bit of a shame that what could have been a sensible discussion about pool safety has turned into this. Am tentatively creeping in while you are all asleep to put my 2 cents worth in.

In case the OP is still around, I would strongly suggest fencing your yard. I know it's nice to live in a neighborhood where the children can mingle freely like this, but as this issue of the pool has highlighted, it's not always for the best. And it's not just pools but, as has been discussed, ponds, chemicals etc in other peoples yards that pose a risk. Even access to the road by a neighbors yard. I know you said you don't let your 3 year old over to the neighbors in question, but we are all human and accidents can, and unfortunately do, happen.

I am in Australia, and have just had a pool installed. The regulations here are very strict regarding fencing - as they should be. The onus here is on the pool owner to properly secure their pool, and there are penalties for non-compliance. Any pool capable of being filled to a depth of 30cm of water or more is required to follow the pool fencing laws, which include the fence being at least 1.2m high (1.8m if it's also a boundary fence), and having a self closing child resistant gate.

As extra precautions, I also have a pool safety net (which is different to a normal pool cover), and am getting an infrared pool perimeter alarm, which alarms if anyone is detected in the pool area, not just if someone opens the gate. For days there are people using the pool, I also have a bracelet type monitor for my youngest DD (15months) that sets off an ear piercing alarm in the house if it gets wet. She also has swimming lessons. I am competent in CPR and have a refresher course every year. None of this, however, negates the strictest of parental supervision at all times. You just can not be too careful when it comes to backyard pools, or water safety in general. While having a pool can have huge benefits for the family, I never underestimate the dangers involved.

It is pretty much drilled into us not to swim alone (though of course each adult, if not cognitively impaired, is capable of weighing up the risks/benefits of this for themselves) and to only 'swim between the flags' at the beach.

While we may not be the experts, water safety is taken very seriously here for a reason; we sadly have many drownings each year. I think, as with anything in life, if you can learn from others mistakes - why wouldn't you?

BTW, I don't really buy into the whole 'I did so and so when I was young and I survived'. We used to pile in the back of our dads station wagon unrestrained when I was a child - wouldn't dream of letting my own children do the same. 'The absence of accident does not imply the presence of safety' (OH&S saying, finally comes in useful for something)

Finally, I am intrigued by a comment I read earlier on - and I'm paraphrasing here - 'Unlike Australia, children in the UK are supervised closely' (?). I am loathe to go back through the whole thread to see exactly what was posted, or who the poster was, but as I said I am honestly intrigued by this comment, and the basis of it (personal opinion/observation, documented fact?). Is that the general consensus? Could someone enlighten me at all?

TIA & sorry for the essay

Thanks for an interesting post. Incidentally, when you say ALL Pools capable of being filled to 30'cm or more have to be fenced and gated - this includes paddling pools put up temporarily, right? Not just permanent installations? What about garden ponds? As of course drowning can occur in any water.

To return to the op, many of us were and in instant disagreement with her, because she didn't even get as far as discussing any water safety- she just asked if she was unreasonable in not letting her 9 yr old visit that garden any more, which she admitted would seem very unfair. The root of the problem seemed to be this approach of allowing the children open access to other peoples gardens- which as you rightly point out, is fraught with pitfalls,not simply because of water but because of numerous other potential risks. And of course, the bottom line is that every parent should know and agree how many and which children are playing in their garden. This doesn't mean the end of communal playing at all- it just means children
Can enjoy themselves in a safer way. If the op adopts that approach, then there is no issue of 'wandering children' and she just needs to check with the neighbour about proper supervision arrangements if her son is invited to swim. It is up to each parent to secure their own garden though-and to raise their children to just ask to play in other peoples gardens.

Oh and I meant to add, lets knock on the head this misguided idea that neighbourhood children all roaming in and out of gardens is fine because 'if you have children yourself, your garden will be childproof'. This assumes that children are all the same, with identical understanding of sensible behaviour. Wrong! We have a 7 yr old boy in the street who sometimes comes over to play with ds. No way could I use the same baseline safety rules with this boy. Eg he has performed dangerous acrobatics at the top of the climbing frame, and needs constant reminders to give other Children space when on the frame. Eg if I was spraying the roses, I could leave the spray outside and tell my ds not to touch it- he would obey, whereas I couldn't trust this lad not to. If this lad just wandered into my garden to play, how on earth can I take responsibility if I don't know he's there?! And equally, my own ds may be less mature than some of the boys he goes to. Children are all different. Thats why the first rule is know and agree who is in your property, and secondly, ensure appropriate supervision

There's a chapter in Freakonomics about the relative dangers of having guns and swimming pools - your child is far more likely to die in the pool than by the gun.

I wouldn't let a nine-year-old anywhere near a pool unsupervised (and by supervised, I mean adult in the pool, not adult in the kitchen sticking his or her head out to check on things occasionally). We have both a pool and a nine-year-old neighbour. She knows she is not allowed to come over by herself - if we are going for a swim we go and get her.

Australians are paranoid about water safety because at least once every few months there will be horrific footage on the news of an ambulance trolley with a tiny little lump under a sheet being wheeled out of a suburban house.

In answer to your question lynehamrose (bit lengthy, but it clarifies it)

'Is my spa / portable pool / wading pool required to be fenced?
The Swimming Pools Act defines a swimming pool as meaning an excavation, structure or vessel:

that is capable of being filled with water to a depth of 300 millimetres or more; and that is solely or principally used, or that is designed, manufactured or adapted to be solely or principally used, for the purpose of swimming, wading, paddling or any other human aquatic activity, and includes a spa pool, but does not include a spa bath, anything that is situated within a bathroom or anything declared by the regulations not to be a swimming pool for the purposes of this Act.
If you have or wish to install a swimming pool then you must ensure that it is at all times surrounded by a child-resistant barrier that separates the swimming pool from any residential building situated on the premises and from any place (whether public or private) adjoining the premises. The barrier must be designed, constructed, installed and maintained in accordance with the specified standards.'

You don't need a safety barrier for:
'Structures not used principally for swimming, paddling or wading including bird baths, fish ponds, fountains, dams and water supply/storage tanks'

Seems a bit strange, I know, as of course these also pose risk

This thread is horrible.