To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

I agree that it would be sensible to fence your garden. it will give you peace of mind when your 3 year old is out there. My garden is surrounded by a 6 ft fence and I agree that high fences make good neighbours.

I would discuss pool safety with your neighbours, and supervision when your child is in the pool. Hopefully, they will already have thought this thru and have rules for pool usage. I would not allow your ds to use the pool without this conversation.

No matter now well your dc can swim, accidents can happen and I would expect a 9 year old to be supervised. You can sit on a lounger and read a book but still keep an eye on the pool

When my ds was 2.5 we were at a pool, he was sitting in 6 inches of water, I turned by back for a few seconds to check on my 6 year old dd. When I turned back he was face down in the water. I grabbed him and he was fine. I read up later that young children do not have that survival instinct and he would have just drowned if I had not picked him up. I still feel terrible about it now and he is 8.

I think it also boils down to how confident you are in your own child's ability. My dd is a good strong swimmer and I would have trusted her to swim without an adult in our local pool (allowed from age 8). However, my ds is 8 and to be honest (is bloody useless) , even after 3 years of lessons appears to be a weak swimmer and I would not allow him to swim without an adult.

Thank goodness sanity prevails and most people agree that nine year olds should be supervised in a pool.

Anna's posts have not been at all patronising. Not compared with the lectures on over-protectiveness on offer.

Thanks hq for deleting my own which included SGB's "comments". Didn't think about that.

Overprotectiveness is a serious risk to your DC, though. They will grow up into socially inept whinyarses who find it hard to make freinds as they wil be forever bleating 'Waa, mummy says I can't do that', and they will not get invited to many social activities as the other parents will not be able to face dealing with the squealing neurotic parents who want to inspect every inch of the house and ask if all the other parents attending the event have been CRB checked, who will insist that no DC are allowed to play in the pool, the treehouse or the slide becasue their own little darling isn't allowed to and it upsets him/her to see other DC doing it.
Also, DC who are never allowed to do anything that might be risky will sooner or later get away from their nutjob parents and have no idea of how to assess risk, thereby putting themelves and others in danger.

I disagree gooseberry, I think anna's posts were a wasted opportunity, because most Of what she had to say made some sense, but she patronised other people and has also failed to come back and Tell us whether she genuinely thinks adults who swim alone are stupid

Hi Gooseberry.Hope you don't mind me asking but in a raised pool that you can't dive into, what sort of incidents would you envisage happening with 2 competent 9 yo swimmers? genuine question.

I have a pool I put up every summer (we do get some nice days here in the west of Scotland ), its one of those 8 foot quick up pools - its for relaxing and playing in for me and the Dcs - swimming is about the only thing you cant do in it, most pools like this are the same. I have read though Op that you think it is one of the ones that have a step? If it was me I would go and look at it and see what the supervision would be - I would be happy for my 9 year old DS to be unsupervised in mine and any neighbours pool, but obviously not my 3 year old DS.

But yes I would fence off my own garden as it may be the norm now but sooner or later I would get fed up with random children running through my garden.

And whilst I agree that water supervision is a good thing for certain ages etc the level of paranoi and overprotectiveness displayed here is quite extreme.

there are some very strong views here

i am a swim teacher

it is nat cirriculum to teach children water safety,nat cirric only asks that they can swim 25m though and basic safety.I teach to a higher safety standard as i live in an area with tides canals lakes fishing ponds etc all local

it is standard in pools that under 8 and non swimmers must be supervised, if there is doubt of ability life guards can request the person to swim x distance and or tread water for x time

in a garden it is a whole new ball game, children should be supervised, there are obvious risks of drowning regardless of ability and also a risk of secondry drowning.
drowning is silent s stated.

Each to their own but a child or adult should never swim alone
it is a rsik for the owners of the pool if gardens are so accessable not something I would want in my garden.

We just have fun with water pistols and water balloons

lynehamrose I thought I had answered your question with - I think swimming alone is a risk - obviously an adult can make up their own mind.

At to the what age question - I think MadamDeathSquare has nailed that one in her response.

I would not swim alone - I suffered debilitating cramp once in a deep pool in my early 20's and I was really glad I had other people around me but I suppose it depends on a whole range of scenarios and again obviously an adult can make up their own mind.

<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.berr.gov.uk/files/file21496.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">BERR Archives

Pages 11 ? 14 make incredibly sad reading as does hearing of others on this thread who have drowned.

Pages 11-14 as this outlines the risks better than what i have tried to outline on this thread and is still every bit as relevant today as so many drownings are preventable.

Here are some Australian statistics

Sadly, drowning in people over 55 now represents a third of all drowning deaths in Aus.

I prefer to swim with someone else anyway or near others - with 60 odd million people in the UK that is a pretty common scenario. I have mentioned that I was brought up to never swim alone, and I have been mocked for this - and so far lived a happy and independent life - but as 280169 said - each to their own.

Squeaky - Australia has tried very hard to reduce drownings and near drowning. NZ (a much smaller country population wise) has double the amount of deaths per capita than Australia.

Your point about only 11.7% of homes in Australia having pools is very interesting, since there are a higher concentration of pools in major cities in Australia. You can read more in the link that I have posted but I?ll quote a relevant section: ?Drowning is a very significant issue for regional Australians with over 50% of all drowning deaths happening outside of major cities. Royal Life Saving calls for the upgrading of regional aquatic facilities to ensure that people living in rural Australia have access to the same levels of swimming and water safety education as those living in the cities.?

And more ? I have bolded the text -

Royal Life Saving says children - particularly those under 5 years - are the most vulnerable to drowning. They highlight that child drowning is preventable and that the Royal Life Saving Keep Watch Program (www.keepwatch.com.au) offers critical actions to highlight that close constant and focused supervision is important plus restricting children's access to water; water awareness and ensuring people have up-to-date resuscitation skills. Royal Life Saving reminds all Australians to regularly check pool fences and says improved pool fencing legislation is needed.


Anyhow, this is my last post and I hope everyone and their families enjoy their swimming safely this summer.

Anna thanks for the links, I think your posts have been marvellous and helpful and pretty calm! Unbelievable criticism considering the abuse which has come from people who don't think a child should be supervised. Why so abusive? And the patronising lectures from people who have no idea of how we bring up families but have decided we are in danger of bringing up incapable, upopular, whining children because we supervise swimmers.

V interesting to have the swim teacher's viewpoint.

SGB, is it impossible for you to post without aggressive language? Your talk of "squealing, nutjob parents" is tremendously abusive and it's puzzling why you have this anger.

And I should say, I have yet to understand in this world or the next what is extreme about watching a nine year old swim.

My point (and I think many others) is that yes, swimming alone is a risk, but so are Many other day to day activities - getting in a car, indeed even setting foot outside the house. I fail to see how it is helpful, or even practical, to suggest that people who live alone should not swim. The question of whether my grandfather has neighbours has still been studiously avoided! And its irrelevant anyway- as has been discussed at length, drowning is a silent, barely noticeable killer- it makes no difference whether someone is next door. Indeed, if having a neighbour solved the problem, therein lies the answer to the op- she is a neighbour of the pool owner!!

I would supervise 9 yr olds in a pool, and nearly every poster has agreed on that. I think the op is being very unreasonable in proposing a blanket ban on that garden for a 9'yr old boy who is used to playing there. I also think it's bizarre to suggest that adults such as my grandfather who live alone and swim daily should not do so. Perhaps he ought to stop taking baths without supervision because there is a risk of drowning there. Or indeed of having any accident in his home or garden. Perhaps no one should live alone?

Even competent swimmers get in trouble. Like my friend, when I was 8. He was diving, a dive he did 100s of times into a holiday centre pool, but for some reason it went it went wrong. it his head on the bottom of the pool. He died. He was 10.

Hit his head on the bottom of the pool.

"I would supervise 9 yr olds in a pool, and nearly every poster has agreed on that."

Yes - now. And yet it was seen as such an unreasonable point of view earlier that there was a lot of vile and disgusting abuse about which there's been no acknowledgement or apology.

Not swimming alone is good advice. Adults can decide whether to take it or not. Now you are just looking for something to argue about to prove you were right about something. Not swimming alone is good advice, whether you take it or not is up to you. That's the end of that.

Gooseberry - we can all see that you are obsessed with sucking up to certain posters, but really, you don't need to answer on anna's behalf- I'm sure shes a big girl and can speak for herself.
Also- you seem to imply I have done some sort of u turn and didn't agree that 9 yr olds need supervisor. Would you kindly point out my posts where I have said that? It may take you a while, seeing as there aren't any. I have said from my first post that the boy needs supervision. I have also said I think its weird that the op has not even bothered to check whether her neighbour with the pool agrees- for all she knows the neighbour wouldn't dream of allowing children unsupervised in her pool. Interestingly the op came back and agreed with me on that.
What I do not agree with is that it is always an unacceptable risk for an adult to swim alone. Many adults swim alone, and do not have the means for supervision anyway. And I still fail to see the relevance of whether my grandfather has a neighbour or not- as if that makes any difference to anything! But im sure Anna can answer for herself if there is any logic to that question

When I was young we lived on a river and used to swim in it all the time (think we swam without supervision from age 9-10 or so). I was/am a very competent swimmer. I went swimming alone when I was 12, did a somersault, and smacked my head on an underwater boulder so hard I still have a scar. If it'd knocked me out, I'd be dead. I never swam alone again and never will. And I wouldn't let DS swim without supervision at that age, either.

We actually had a bad scare with that recently. DS (he's three) was invited to a swimming party and jumped in the deep end after taking of his life jacket. I saw him and ran over and grabbed him out; he was fine. But I was the only parent who'd stayed at the party, and I was also the only one who noticed DS go in. I don't like to think about what would have happen if I hadn't been there.

OFF his life jacket and would have HAPPENED. I'm tired. :)

When I was about 7 or 8 a neighbour had a pool and the children weren't always supervised in it. My mother told me I wasn't allowed in and I didn't go in but I did watch my friends. I guess it could depend on how much you trust your son to do likewise. I'd talk to the parents and ask if you could supervise when they didn't?

Anna (and I do mean Anna, not gooseberry unless you're one and the same person ) could you clarify your point about whether an adult swimming alone has a neighbour? If you are implying that somehow that makes it safer, then I disagree. Having someone next door, or even in the house, is not going to prevent someone from drowning.

I am still intrigued about this point on lone swimming. When I swam alone (dh was inside the house) I didn't dive in, I have no underlying medical conditions, I simply climbed in the pool and swam lengths. I would never swim in the sea or a river alone. The risk of that is far less than doing a car journey- do you therefore conclude that car journeys are 'wrong'?
I am also intrigued about your thoughts on encouraging independence, given that by your own admission, an adult can decide for themselves whether to swim alone. Do you think a 17 yr and 364 days old should be supervised when swimming , even though they are a day off being able to judge for themself when/where/how to swim?

YABU for letting the kids run through other people's gardens - it's bound to be starting to wind someone in the street up (probably as their own kids have outgrown the phase) and you'll be back on here in a year or two complaining that someone's kicked off about it.

Fence yer own garden in - try, and this is a shockingly new idea here, TALKING to your neighbour, explain your concerns, say you don't want your kid to be left out but are worried and would they mind if you come over when your kid wants to go swimming (hell take a cake for everyone to scoff afterwards). If you pitch it as a "it's me being a worrywart, and it's nothing against you it's for my own peace of mind" way rather than a "you'll go for a poo mid swim and they'll all drown" then, if you've got the relationship with your neighbours that you probably sound like you've got for the kids to all be in each other's gardens, it shouldn't be a problem. If you're wanting to maintain the option for open access... our neighbours are all very close (half the street was at his 5am Royal Wedding barbecue the other night... and most of the street's chairs and garden furniture were being returned all weekend) - and have those slot in wooden fence panels with concrete posts that they can lift out when they're doing things like borrowing the next guy's down garden tap and the like - but pop back in when they want to secure the garden up again.

For what it's worth I used to work in a boarding school that had a very very nice pool (right at the bottom of my garden mwuahhaahahhaha) and supervised kid swims and it's mentally tiring - you spend the entire time maintaining a constant count that you've got everyone accounted for and the like. We also had staff access to the pool based on a go-get-the-key-signed out system on evenings... with the rule that NO ONE ever swam alone - and that one WAS massively enforced.

As for schools - generally they get enough time and resources to teach them to cobble together a 25m doggy paddle... ie the utter basics to try to prevent them from drowning - style or substance doesn't generally come into it, and school swimming lessons are on such a conveyor belt (the next school's lined up by the poolside as your class is getting out) that the quality of input you get is bog-all basically.

PS I don't like the "you're ignorant"... "you're nasty because you don't agree with me" that's going on on here :P

"Gooseberry - we can all see that you are obsessed with sucking up to certain posters,"

There you go - abuse again.

I'm not obsessed with sucking up to anyone. If I agree, I agree. If I disagree, I disagree, and am abused for it, vilely. What is wrong with you? Is it not possible to post without being offensive?

"Anna (and I do mean Anna, not gooseberry unless you're one and the same person )"

and this is pathetic

is it not enough for you that a swim teacher has advised against swimming alone? it's obvious what can happen - it's just up to the adult to make a judgement

I take it if you can't criticise the abuse, and you're still having a go at me for pointing it out, you condone it

Derision is what people have to deal with when they post nonsense, especially when they appear to be looking for a fight.