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Original poster

To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

542 replies

Bluesatinsashes · 01/05/2011 22:51

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 03/05/2011 23:50

It isnt appalling, it is just rude to wander through gardens where people may want some privacy. What is so wrong with knocking on the door, by going up the drive or via the front garden. That way someone knows the kid is there, and if nobody is in, he doesnt go wandering about on their property uninvited.

Then we have reduced the risk of him drowning and nobody knowing where he is. Problem solved.

Now, it is past my bedtime, and I have to be up early to go swimming in the morning..... on my own!

Apart from the rather gorgeous lifeguard Wink

annawintour · 03/05/2011 23:52

Posters who shared experience or people they knew who had drowned, or who nearly drowned are unlikely to think this is a classic Hmm

Gooseberrybushes · 03/05/2011 23:54

I'm not sure why you are talking about a U turn? really you are grasping at straws here.

You can tell from the OP that it's common practice between the neighbours for "kids to run between and play". The mums obviously have an understanding, why would you assume it's just one child roaming around uninvited? There's plainly a long standing agreement there. How can you have missed that?

Why all the talk of rudeness and respect when there's a (rather nice) situation of lots of friendly children all playing in each other's gardens by mutual agreement?

The only "situation" is water safety, not rudeness and respect and lone children trespassing on other people's property. That's clear from the OP. You must have missed it. You must all have missed it.

Gooseberrybushes · 03/05/2011 23:56

"it is just rude to wander through gardens where people may want some privacy."

Did you not read the OP?

To ban this rather nice and very natural situation, which all the parents have agreed to, on the grounds of rudeness, manners, respect and trespass seems - dare I say it - a little precious.

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 00:00

But actually my suggestion with the pool would be, and I think I made this some time ago but maybe it was just in my head - now there's a pool the child should only go by the front way. I wouldn't be happy otherwise.

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 06:32

Chuntering away to yourself still gooseberry?! Guess youre so high on your horse now there's no one else in earshot!!

Grin
GooseberryFool · 04/05/2011 08:01

This is still going on? Well you sure can't beat it for entertainment!

And squeaky and lyneham sound like the only sane people here!

transferbalance · 04/05/2011 08:31

haven't read all the thread obviously who's got time for that Grin

but my 9yo dc almost drowned in a supervised pool, during a swimming lesson

lifeguard & teachers didn't notice, but her friend swimming with her did

KatieWatie · 04/05/2011 08:47

As a pool-owning neighbour to a 13-year-old girl there is nothing I detest more than her dad treating my back garden like a free creche with the appropriate adequate supervision. However I'd be horrified if he banned her from coming around altogether and enjoying the pool when we're having a barbecue or something.

We got the pool installed to enjoy, and for our friends and their kids to enjoy, but people need to understand that whilst having a pool is a big responsibility for the owners, it is up to THEM as parents to make sure they're happy with the safety of their own kids and not expect us to be qualified in lifesaving techniques or spend our day supervising your kids while you go off and do something more interesting.

If they're not then don't come round, don't let your kids play in our garden - we're not that fussed honestly! - and go pay for them to get in at the baths. You can't reap the free daily rewards and entertainment of having a neighbour with a pool (it's not free for us, believe me) and totally cast off all your responsbilities as a parent just because your neighbour is generous enough to share their pool.

Oh and I'd be horrified if a 3-year-old was wandering around in my garden unsupervised and I didn't know it. My back garden is firmly secured with a bolted 6 foot gate but this didn't stop my (hammered) neighbour breaking into my garden at midnight with said daughter and her sleepover mates, whilst we were away for the weekend. If anything had happened I'd have been held responsibile, not the hammered neighbour. So if we're on about manners, then THAT'S bad manners....

Jux · 04/05/2011 09:03

I wasn't advocating full adult responsibility. The op says her 3yo doesn't wander so there's no need to worry about atm. She will start wandering some time though, and there's nothing wrong with expecting an older sibling to keep an eye out for a younger sibling. My brother did with me and our younger brother, I did for my younger brother when it was just hte two of us. This is how you learn to be responsible fgs. Yes, kids s/be kids, but once they've reached a state of intelligence (usually around 7) you can start expecting more responsible behaviours. What's wrong with asking a bro to look out for a little sis? He'll turn into a fabulous daddy......

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 09:51

LH: I suppose derision is all that's left when you're so comprehensively shown to be off the point and have nothing else to say.

Katie: I think your attitude is quite right. It's unbelievable that some parents don't take responsibility when there is a pool. It is not some hand-over play area: if my child was invited I would offer to supervise and if not accepted, be very grateful for the supervision. Water supervision is a HUGE responsibility and the owners would be the first to be accused if anything went wrong. I don't think the OP is guilty of this at all - she is so concerned that she is thinking of withdrawing her son from the "communal playing" that takes place. A sensible, cautious standpoint which just needs a few adjustments involving a conversation with the pool owners to make workable.

Fool: ST and Lyneham seem to be contradicting themselves and ignoring what the OP has said, and to have more interest in banning communal playing than water safety. If that's sane to you, have a Biscuit.

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 09:52

Jux, I agree with you on the whole, but not where water is concerned. That would be my qualification. And three is still very little to not know where your child is.

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 09:56

I agree Katiewaity - but apparently its "nice and natural " for children to wander in and out of each others properties, and those of us who expect parents to be responsible for their children and being "precious"!!

Tbh I think that the lazy parenting approach of assuming that 'someone somewhere' is supervising my child (even though they may not know it!) is exactly the sort of irresponsible attitude which leads to accidents.

A basic rule of being a responsible parent is that you provide opportunities for your child to become independent and confident, but you do it against a backdrop of whichever adult is in charge KNOWING that the child is there and AGREEING and ACCEPTING that they have responsibility

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 10:02

Why is it not nice and natural if all the parents are in agreement and have an understanding? You are creating all sorts of hypothetical situations which don't exist in the OP - why? It's overprotective and suffocating to be worried about a pool, but not precious to allow children to play together when all the parents allow it? They need to spread their wings but "someone somewhere" must always be supervising them?

LH you seem all over the place in your desperation to score some kind of point.

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 10:02

Oh and who said anything about banning communal playing? I didn't . My children frequently play with groups of neighbourhood kids- the thing is I KNOW where my Children are, and if its in someone elses garden, that parent' knows and agrees it.

Really clutching at straws now, trying to accuse people of the opposite of what they've actually posted!

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 10:04

( sigh)
How can parents possibly agree if they don't know other Children are in their garden?

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 10:05

LH - they all play across the gardens - but this child and parent are accused of having bad manners, described as "damn cheeky" for joining in, for going to ask a child to play through the back way, of dangerous trespass. Did you not read the OP?

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 10:13

( sigh)
How can parents possibly agree if they don't know other Children are in their garden?

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 10:19

Ah well, lets just agree to disagree then. I think children should always be supervised properly around water AND I think parents should know where their children are, when playing out. Obviously I and thousands of others are just far too precious, wanting to know where our children are. See, my children ARE precious actually.

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 10:22

You are very much struggling with the concept of allowing your child a little freedom I think. It's not such a bad thing to do that. If all the parents know and agree that the children play across the gardens, then it's a safe assumption that they have a basic mutual understanding about supervision.

I would allow a 9yo to walk to school, to the shop, to ride a bike to a friend's. There are periods where not only would I not know where he is, he would be completely UNsupervised in public, on a road. That's a good thing. Obviously one has the conversation. This is rather more dangerous in many ways than playing with friends across gardens but both are a good start to independence.

You are assuming that these parents have never had a conversation with the adults about it, or told the children about being sensible in this situation. I don't know why you would assume that.

lynehamrose · 04/05/2011 10:38

On your last point, I am assuming that the parents in question don't communicate and have a mutual understanding because it had not even occurred to the op to TALK to her neighbour about the issue. Neither had the neighbour even mentioned that they were buying and erecting a swimming pool. Hardly the basis for mutual agreement about supervision !

On the first point, no issues with worrying about my kids' independence here, so don't try clutching at that straw. My kids have plenty of opportunities to walk to the shop alone, etc - the difference being I know that I am responsible for them- or have AGREED that someone else is Smile

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 10:54

I don't know why you think I'm clutching at straws: I am very consistent, except that I've strengthened my advice on supervision given the pool is so far away from her own house.

Given the lax attitude towards pool safety shown on this thread, it may be that such an approach is rather common in the UK because of the lack of pool culture. So the neighbours would not have thought to mention the pool, and the OP is embarrassed to bring it up because it looks like criticism and that she is being overprotective.

Given the enormous amount of abuse and derision on this thread to those who consider pool safety very important, it's not suprising that she thinks this way, and I think it's irresponsible that posters on this thread have encouraged that fear, and hooted with laughter at the idea that she should be worried.

I think by condoning the abuse and derision, and joining in with it, you have aligned yourself with that group. If you find that your point of view is actually very close to mine, you feel discomfited by it, and that somehow, some way, I must be wrong. About something. Anything. Sadly (for you) not the case.

squeakytoy · 04/05/2011 11:11

The Op hasnt posted for quite a while Goosey, but you seem to be doing a very good job of speaking for her. Grin.

As for contradicting myself, I really havent if you bother to read back. Most of my replies have been to you, not the long vanished Op.

KatieWatie · 04/05/2011 11:13

"Given the lax attitude towards pool safety shown on this thread, it may be that such an approach is rather common in the UK because of the lack of pool culture"

Dead right. Pools are becoming more and more common in the UK, I guess as those enormous temporary ones are getting cheaper... the most irresponsible parent in the world could go into Argos and buy one and erect it, it's quite frightening.

Periodically it's on the news that a toddler has been found dead in a swimming pool - probably about once a year. But I would guess this will get more common and then people might start taking it all a bit more seriously. Sad but true.

Gooseberrybushes · 04/05/2011 11:15

I think you have, ST, most certainly. And again this strange inconsistency: an obsession with the dangers of children playing across gardens, accompanied by a laxity towards pool safety because people drown all the time and you can't wrap children in cotton wool.

I think the contribution you have made towards the feeling of derision over pool safety is very irresponsible.