To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

LR: your argument is specious.

It's recommended that you don't swim alone. The fact that accidents happen when there are swim teachers around does not negate all safety advice about water. It does not mean "therefore non supervision is as safe as supervision". It means that complacency is dangerous, and possible under any circumstances; that drowning is silent, and that supervision of children is not to do with "keeping an eye" or "hovering about", but active and alert.

For a group of children in the pool I would always have another Mum and we would not sit and chat (unfortunately) - we would have chairs either end of the pool and watch the boys or the girls, and watch, and watch. Nobody thought I was hysterical. They were pleased their children were safe.

Acceptable to wander into gardens uninvited?
Nope- rude, intrusive and poor parenting. If the 9 yr old waits to be invited rather than inviting himself, it would eliminate any problem of possibly having an accident on someone elses property (which actually could happen regardless of pool- falling off a climbing frame/down steps etc)

Gooseberry, a NINE year old should be able to leave the house unsupervised and be able to cross a road too... his mother should not need to follow him at every waking moment. He could be walking over bridges that have rivers running beneath them. Does the mother vet every friend of his to check they dont have a pool or a pond in their garden?

There is far more danger on the roads than in anyones back garden for a nine year old boy who can swim!

Its a big paddling pool in a garden, it is not going to be an olympic pool deep enough to dive into! A nine year old should be sensible enough to get a stick to poke the ball to the side, not fall in after it. That would be the behaviour of a three year old, who should be fenced into her own garden.

It could be acceptable, there could be an understanding between the parents. It's not unheard of at all. My own view is that it's a little bit helicopterish to restrict the 9yo in that way if it weren't for the pool. It's not abnormal to go and ask the neighbouring children to play via the back gardens; indeed it may be considered safer as they don't go out into the street.

If it's a high-sided rigid pool, they are quite dangerous. There's no edge to hold onto if you aren't by the steps.

I think it's normal at around nine years old to go unsupervised and ask if the children want to play. I don't see why a parent would ban that, unless the neighbours had made it clear it was unacceptable. Clearly they haven't, if it's custom and practice with the OP's neighbours. It sounds like quite a nice little set up if all the houses have children. All they have to do is shout "I'm going over to x's".

Disagree totally gooseberry. An 'understanding' between the parents does not prevent a child wandering into a garden uninvited and falling off a climbing frame, tripping down steps etc

Teaching a child to cross roads safely, and be independent - absolutely. Going onto other peoples property - a big no no. Very unreasonable.
This thread gets more bizarre by the minute!

We'll have to agree to differ. I don't understand the laxity about water safety accompanied by a slightly helicopter attitude (in my view) about going to ask friends to play because of the imagined dangers of tripping over a plant pot. Water is far more dangerous. What if they and ask via the front way? Do they have to take a long stick and poke the doorbell with it rather than go up the path?

This is an area where you can rely on the common sense of the child and it's a good step to independence. Go and ask, come back if the answer is no. Make sure the Mum knows you are there. It takes very little. It's very, very different to water safety.

Won't the swimming trunks and beach ball tip off the parents that they are heading for the pool?

I am being sarcastic there, but it does seem an unusual double standard. I'm not saying garden accidents don't happen, gosh no, obviously they do. Nasty ones too. But general garden play doesn't require constant supervision whereas pool play does.

Exactly Lyneham.

We should teach our kids the dangers, and make them aware. Not simply tell them to stay away, thereby making it seem more exciting and more of a challenge.

Here is the scenario.

Mother tells 9yo son "dont go in that garden, there is a swimming pool"

son says "but mum, I can swim and all my mates are there"

mother says "dont care, you might fall in and drown, stay out"

son thinks... "but I can swim, I wont drown, she wont know if I sneak off"

and no, she probably wont, if she doesnt care that a 3yr old can wander freely...

Scenario 2

Mother to 9yo.

If you go next door but one, make sure your sister isnt following you. Keep the (so far non existant but should be) gate closed so she cant get out. And dont just go into the garden without asking the owner first if it is ok for you to be there, or unless you have been invited.

Ah right, you are agreeing with me' then gooseberry, that the child goes and ASKS PERMISSION, and then TELLS HIS PARENT WHERE HE IS GOING. Not just shouts 'i'm going to xxx', uninvited, as you suggested earlier.

As for your bizarre nonsense about tripping over a pot plant and poking doorbells with big sticks, perhaps you have totally lost the plot. My point was that if a child goes into someone's garden uninvited and has an accident, its a dreadful situation for the house owners who may then feel a sense of responsibility for a child they didn't know was there. If you agree to a child coming round to play, you are implicitly accepting responsibility for that child. If you don't feel you can take that responsibility at the time, you say no. If you don't know the child is there, you cant make that judgement call.

Earlier you said at some point you have to unwrap the cotton wool, and let your children out into the big bad world. And yet you agree with Lyneham that a 9yo can't go into a neighbour's back garden to ask if his friend wants to play?

I think you are somewhat tying yourself in knots. Perhaps I am in for some more "well justified" revolting abuse for daring to disagree with you.

Lyneham - you are obsessed with point scoring. Earlier on I could just as well have said "you seem to completely agree with me that a 9yo in water needs supervision" after your initial comment that it was daft not to let him go. You are more interested in point scoring, in fact you are all interested in point scoring. This is what I find bizarre.

I now don't understand what you are saying at all. You seem very confused.

I never said a 9 year old cant go round and ask to play gooseberry. On the contrary, I said they SHOULD go and ask permission. You were the one saying they just turn up uninvited. Perhaps you need to take a few deep breaths again and try to follow your own posts

Are you struggling to follow me now Gooseberry. I am all for letting a child have its independence. I do however think that just wandering uninvited into a garden is damn cheeky. Nothing to do with safety and all to do with manners.

If you want to see if you friend is playing out, you go knock at the door, not just wander through someone elses garden (nobody seems to have thought about the poor sod in the middle who has random children using his garden as a short cut!)...

And stop playing the victim, my violin is worn out.

I don't think permission each time is needed at all. I think you have a conversation with the Mums at the start to make sure it's ok with them, and that you have a mutuality on how it would work. Then you talk to the child about being sensible. It's not complicated. If the children are playing out, and one shouts "I'm going to x's", it's then straightforward. The children will know how to behave. Far more likely than being educated about being sensible in a pool - to the extent that safety is guaranteed.

We're all obsessed with point scoring !!! Apart from gooseberry!!
Ha ha ha ha ha I've heard it all now!

For the record: I did NOT say a 9 yr old cant go out into the big wide world up the garden path and ask to play. I was the one who said they CAN and SHOULD. You were the one who said , oh no, just let them wander in without being asked- even though that leaves the other parents completely wide open if there's any accident or problem!

Honestly gooseberry you're something else, you truly are!

But I can see what the others meant now- its been entertaining! Night all!

I'm not playing the victim. You condoned some horrible abuse. Sorry if you don't like being reminded of it but you did.

I think it's one of the first steps to independence to go and ask friends to play. You just have an agreement with the other mums that you send the child home if not wanted and no one is offended. To not worry about a pool, but to think this is beyond the pale, is ..what is it. It's difficult to understand. Yes, I struggle to understand that point of view, and I would consider it a double standard.

But I see now that you are chiefly concerned with manners rather than water safety. I thought the thread was about water safety.

Lyneham, your attitude is completely inexplicable.

agree with all squeaky has said.

OMG 14 pages of the same old same old! Ladies!

I think you misunderstood. It's the wandering onto people's property which is beyond the pale for you - but the property at the front of the house is fine. It's just the property at the back of the house. So they can knock on the front door, but not the back door, because that's just appalling.

Okaaaaay.

Yes, ASK to play. The crucial word being ASK. In other words a total u turn on your earlier posts.
But if it makes you feel better to now petulantly accuse us all of prioritising manners overwater safety, then go right ahead. The fact is , some of us care about safety AND treating neighbours with manners and respect.
Must be very lonely up there on your high horse!