To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

"you have to unwrap the cotton wool, and let your children out into the world, as hard as it may be.... "

and here's another.. patronising? condescending? making it all incredibly personal?

squeakytoy - what's with the ridiculous quesiton?

I said I would not recommend a teen to swim alone.

lets look at my full post Gooseberry.

Add message | Report | Message poster squeakytoy Sun 01-May-11 23:52:33
so far most of you seem unaware of the dangers

there are dangers in every single aspect of life, no matter what your age, but at some point, you have to unwrap the cotton wool, and let your children out into the world, as hard as it may be....

I am well aware of the dangers of the big bad world, but I didnt suffocate my kids and stop them from experiencing independence as they grew up.

I see nothing wrong with that actually

And Silver, some posters were saying they would not let a 15yr old out of their sight.

I'm sure you don't. There was a great deal of patronising and condescending which turned into the most disgusting abuse which you seem to condone, so I'm not suprised you don't recognise your own condescension.

squeaky - the posts i saw recommending supervising teens were:

a) not about paddling pools (you make it sound as though Gooseberry watches over her children while they sit crammed in one of those 2 inch high toddler paddling pools ), but about swimming pools, where even teens can easily be out of their depth.

b) commenting more on the fact that if you have a group of teens all mucking about in a pool (talking about one in a house here, not leisure centre), then there is a distinct possibility that they are not paying much attention to each other - easy for someone to go unaccounted for for a couple of minutes if all up to high jinx. keeping an eye on them is not a bad idea, imo, I am not sure why anyone would think it was.

most disgusting abuse?????????

you really think so???

Yes, disgusting. You can't read it now because it was deleted and I'm not about to repeat it.

oh, and I notice that none of the non-supervisors have answered the post re: if it was a bunch of teens swimming at a school pool, unsupervised, and an accident happened - woudl everyone say "oh, one of those things", or woudl they all be baying for blood and asking why the teens were not supervised?

woudl be very interested ot see some answers to that one...

I read it when it was posted, and it was most certainly NOT disgusting abuse, it was a bit of piss-taking, which given some of the posts you made, was very well justified.

I detest people who have trigger fingers on the report button, it is pathetic.

Don't call me a liar. Really. Don't. They were deleted for a reason.

Withdraw that abuse please.

In Glasgow, kids are allowed to go the swimming pools unaccompnaied from the age of 8. Ds is a competent --but not pretty- swimmer so I am happy with that.

My cousins in South Africa went to swimming lessons from the age of 12 months to make sure that they could swim because they had a swimming pool in their garden. (I took the youngest to one of her lessons when she was 13 motnhs old and she could already doggy paddle on her onw without floats)

My personal beleif is that we should give children as much freedom and independence as possible as they grow in maturity. That will vary according to the child - but as I was given independence from a young age, I am determined to give ds the same freedom. Ds has been walking to school (10-15 minute walk, inner city suburb IFSWIM) on his own since he was 7 and home again since he was 8. We trained him from a as soon as he could walk to tell us when it was safe to cross the road and he has good judgement . Other kids I wouldn't be so happy with as they have no sense of traffic awareness (and I wouldn't have let ds "walk" with them). He is now cycling to school (age 10) - but we still pick him as we judge the mmelee of cars at school pick-up time to be too dangerous (we are thinking about it for the days when he has an after school club so it would be quieter).

In just over a year, he will be having to cycle further to his secondary school, along more "real" roads, so I want him to be confident as a cyclist in traffic before then.

Bringing up kids is all about making judgements. I happen to err on the "independence" side (albeit with my heart in my mouth at time) whreas others are more careful. It helps that ds is a very sensible boy - with a different character I might be more cautious.

Only the OP knows the character of her ds. On the face of it, I do think she is BU to have a blanket ban - but maybe she should have a chat with the neighbout to find out what supervision would coonsists of.

FWIW: in Oz, the fenced pools are aimed to be a deterrant for children under five IMHO, sometihng requiring a ladder to get up into is in itself a dterrant - espcially if the ladder can be taken away when there is no-one around (not sure if that is the case).

Lol catchme

I am also a bit surprised at the idea that a single adult should feel they ought to invite their neighbour round daily whenever they swim! And indeed at the idea that it would be thought reasonable to impose on them in this way! I wonder if they 'ought ' to do the same for having a bath- given the risk of slipping and banging ones head?!!

Silver, in answer to that question. If the teens were in a public swimming pool where an attendant is meant to be on duty then yes I would expect them to be supervising and keeping an eye on the behaviour. However, if the teens were in a garden and mucking around in a small pool, I would not expect an adult to be supervising them, and would hope that I have educated my children to be aware of the dangers of water and to use their own common sense.

silverfrog.... I'd be devastated but wouldn't hold anyone else accountable personally. My children are much younger but are already confidant in the water, I'd expect that as teens they would be proficient swimmers with a good understanding of basic safety.

I would never expect a teenager to e supervised in water..... fgs as teenagers they're old enough to train as lifeguards themselves. Would you expect to have supervision yourself as an adult? I know I'd be fairly pissed off if someone told me I couldn't be trusted to swim without supervision!

BTW... I think the paddling pool question was because that is the type of pool the OP means, one of those big paddling pools you can buy in to shops that hold a fair bit of water but are still shallow enough to stand in.

Withdraw that abuse please

what "abuse" are you seeing now, blimey you are a bit fragile and delicate arent you!

OP... I haven't read the other posts yet but enroll your child in swimming lessons and get him swimming competently. If he does disobey you then at least he can swim and get himself to safety.

Witch, she says in the OP that he is a good swimmer.

Not many 9yr olds would wander off and climb into a pool to have a swim on their own in a neighbours garden. For one, it is too bloody cold in this country! And even if he did, he CAN swim.

The 3yr old is a different matter, and should not be wandering between neighbours gardens regardless of a swimming pool. The onus is on the OP to secure HER garden, not put silly bans on a 9yr old.

squeaky - that doesn't quite answer the question though.

eg - my school had an outdoor pool. not fenced off (when I was there). we were, of course, banned form swimming without supervision.

but, if a group of us had done so, and one of us had an accident - would it have, in oyur opinion, been one of those things, or shuld the pool have been fenced/always had someone on duty, etc?

your post comes across as a double standard, tbh. teens are ok to swim alone at home, but not elsewhere...

SummerRain: thank you for answering. I agree that I would hope to bring my girls up to have a good degree of common sense. but that does not accoutn for everyone else, and their children, does it? again, I speak form experience - when I was at school, a girl in my year thoguht it owuld be funny to pull me under the water unexpectedly (deliberately - she did not like me). It was, needless to say not funny, and I got into a bit of trouble. (again, needless ot say - she got into more trouble!) we were 15

It doesn't take much - she was incapable of helping me, as she was not a strong enough swimmer (I don;t like to jude whether she owuld have been willing or not) - luckily, the swim session was supervised. Some of my friends, panicked, some tried ot help. But it was the adult supervising who was most help.

Squeaky... I actually meant the 3 year old. I know the 9 year old can swim but if there's water, there are children and they don't always do as they're told. No, they shouldn't be wandering but if it were my 3 year old, I'd rather they could swim just in case, than not give them any tools at all.

And because I don't think posters have read the links I do think the guidelines that I linked were pertinent so I have copy and pasted some content:

Childhood is the best time to prepare children for safe aquatic participation and provide the skills and knowledge needed to have a lifelong safe association with water. The strategies used to prevent child drowning and prepare them for participation in aquatic activities change as they grow, but it remains essential that foundation skills and drills are developed at a young age.

0-4 years
Parents ? use close, constant and focused supervision.
Parents ? Learn Resuscitation.
Ensure the pool is fenced with a working self closing and latching gate. Provide a safe play area, particularly if living on a farm or large property.
Water familiarisation and confidence - preparatory skills.

5-9 years
Parents ? Increasing distance, but always within eyesight and ready for action.
Parent ? Lifesaving and rescue skills Child ? Personal survival skills; treading water and floating
Set rules and behaviour in, on and around water and reinforce them often.
Learn to swim and water safety ? basic foundation skills. Participate in Swim and Survive.

The location where children drown changes as they grow, from ?Swimming Pools? in the under 5 age group to ?River / Creek / Stream? locations for older children. Also as children age the activities they are undertaking immediately prior to drowning changes, from children who are playing and gain unintended access to water and fall in to being in or on the water (i.e. interacting with water) prior to drowning.

10-14 years
Increasing independence but need to physically check up on them regularly.
Parent ? Lifesaving and rescue skills
Child ? Personal survival and basic rescue skills; reach to rescue and rope throw.
Setting rules and boundaries, guiding the selection of appropriate locations and activity.
Swim and Survive ? essential water safety swimming and foundation skills.

15-17 years
swim with friends and ensure the safety of yourself and those with you.
Child ? Personal survival, lifesaving rescue and emergency skills; Bronze Medallion and resuscitation training.
Setting rules and boundaries, proving skills for selecting appropriate locations.
Lifesaving, swimming and water safety ? skills for aquatic activities.

I agree totally Witch, no child is ever too young to learn to swim. I wouldnt rely on just verbally telling a kid that age not to wander though. At that age they are so easily distracted.. a butterfly, a noise they want to investigate... and off they go without a single thought of what mum said they shouldnt do.

Silver, I grew up near reservoirs. Every summer without fail, someone drowned and it was usually a teen. Nobody ever blamed the parents. Its a tragedy, and they shouldnt have been jumping from the tower, there were plenty of signs there, but you cannot keep a teen tied to your forever, they wander off with their mates and probably dont even tell you where they are going a lot of the time, especially in hot weather. I wouldnt have expected the reservoir owners to employ a lifeguard though. I swam in the shallow part of the reservoirs too, but I was always very careful to only be where my feet touched the bottom. I am a very good and strong swimmer, but I wont swim in the sea unless in a shallow bay as that scares me, as the undercurrents can be so strong.

If I am on holiday, I will happily swim alone in the pool, but wouldnt go in the sea alone or anywhere with a current/hidden depths/reeds/rocks.

I know it may sound as though that is double standards, but I cannot see how else to explain it.

squeaky - I am not suggesting keeping a teen tied ot me forever.

I have experience of teens. they are not tied to me

but, if I had a pool in my garden, that a load of teens were piling into regularly - I would have rules.

and I would keep an eye out.

really not sure why this would be seen as over the top, neurotic, helicopter parenting.

Where we are (Western Australia), our local government regulations state that all modern pools must be securely fenced, have self-closing gates and child proof gate latches. There are even guidelines as to how big a gap you can have between the ground and the bottom of the fence. Older pools which don't have fences must be completely inaccessible from the street or neighbouring homes and gardens, and any doors leading from the house directly to the pool area must have locks and handles at least 1.5 metres from the ground.
Despite these safety features (which are independently inspected every 3 years) drownings still occur in backyard pools. Most often, it's the curious toddler who drags a chair over to the gate or sneaks through a wedged open door or gate unseen. The other high risk group are older kids that know how to swim, but are playing boisterously in the pool and showing off to their mates. The slip on the edge and bang their heads. They see who can stay under water the longest.

It's the unseen that is dangerous. Children drown so quietly. They don't fight or scream.
We are constantly being reminded here to supervise children around pools, even if we think that they are old enough to be safe on their own. I agree that we are in many ways mollycoddling this generation of kids but this is one area where there is no such thing as overcaution.
OP, you are NBU to expect that the neighbours should have secured access to the pool. YANBU to expect that your son, if he has been invited to use the pool, is adequately supervised. YABU to let your DD accompany your son if she has not been invited and you are not supervising her. YABU to expect any of your neighbours to secure their gardens and make them toddler proof if you don't have your own garden properly secured.