To tell ds9 he can't go in neighbour's garden now they have a swimming pool

[Bluesatinsashes]

Been lurking for a while but this is my first thread. I'd like to know what you wise ladies think. Our back gardens are easily accessible, separated by hedges only so kids can run between gardens to play. DS is a good swimmer but we also have a dd3 who can't swim, so I've told them both they can't go next door but one anymore. DS understands my reasons but it's going to be hard for him when he has to say he can't go over, isn't it?

especially when they practically drool over the posters who fervently agree with them.. and start with the "ooooh thank you, at least SOMEONE else is right like me.. I will PM you immediately"....

I'm sorry - you accuse me of looking for a fight when your posts are full of abuse? Are you joking? In that case you are looking for a fight almost every time you post. You are abusive and aggressive and you've done it twice on this thread.

It's nonsense to say nine-year-olds should be supervised? Really?????

I think you should come in for a fair bit of derision yourself for suggesting that anyone who thinks they should be supervised is in danger of creating whining, socially incapable, unpopular children.

However most of us are better brought up than to be personal, offensive, aggressive and abusive.

I take it you both condone the vile abuse then. Never seen anything so childish and unpleasant.

No, its not enough for me that a 'swimming teacher' advises adults against swimming alone. An adult who lives alone, who has no underlying medical conditions, who follows basic safety procedures like not diving into shallow water, is not being foolhardy by exercising by swimming daily in their pool. In fact they are probably risking their health more by sitting indoors as a couch potato. Or by getting in their car to go shopping. Or by a million other things . That was why I queried anna's assertion- which she still hasn't responded to, even though you feel the need to speak on her behalf

I dont think you are being over cautious - firstly I would ensure the garden could not be "escaped" by your 3 year old. Secondly I wouldnt be happy even with a 9 year old "play" swimming with friends - I have no doubt if my son were in a pool with mates they would get over excited and playfight.

I also saw a small child who was a competant swimmer "drown" on holiday because she fell ill in the pool and passed out - pool was busy so she wasnt immediately missed...by the time she was pulled out she was blue (luckily recovered in hospital)

Some people would have no problem as their children can swim and some of us do an additonal "risk assessment" on the "other" things that can happen - we are all different.

Wow gooseberry, do you need oxygen to help you breathe with that high horse you are on? :)

I expect Gooseberry is tired out and fractious from having reported so many posts.

And I still don't see any vile abuse. Can someone point me in the right direction please?

You made most of it catch me. It was utterly vile. Two or three posters agree with each other and you make the most disgusting suggestions because you couldn't think of anything else to say. I supported other posters because nasty suggestions and comments were made simply because we said young swimmers should be supervised.

So - you all condone it, don't even recognise it. Ugh.

So, lets sum up the good advice so far:

1. ensure your garden is enclosed and safe
2. Don't expect your 9 yr old to look out\be responsible for your 3 yr old
3. Ensure the pool is supervised
4. Only let 9 yr old go to pool IF supervised, and when invited.

I like the idea of kids being free and being able to go to other folks houses uninvited - on the spur door knocking etc; especially if you have a friendly neighbourhood. Equally, your child MUST let you know when they are nipping out, 9 yrs old or not. My 7 yr old runs 5 doors up to his friends house on his own (with my knowledge), and scoots up n down the road with his 5 yr old sister. I periodically pop my head out and check all is ok, but I am fully aware of dangers. Moving into more indepth chat here, so for now... the above is my advice. I like the idea of letting the child have a wee bit more freedom, but just ensure some 'checks' are in place. Keep hold of your 3 yr old though, way too young to let go at the moment.

You might notice on a cursory glance that the Austrailian statistics are talking mainly about drowning in waterways, not pools? You don't get so many riptides and large waves in backyard swimming pools, that I'm aware.

Gooseberry, you started the patronising and condescending behaviour on page 3.

Dont complain when you get some back.

At 9 years of age I was going to the pool with friends several times a week with no adult supervision..... and this was in the days of minimal lifeguard presence and it was a jammed pool.

dd is 6 and he best friend has one of those raised pools and the girls play in it all the time and I'm pretty certain bf-s mother isn't standing in attendance watching them every second they're in there.

There was no patronising and condescending from me. I take water safety seriously and I was told to piss off with my mewling and that I was suffocating my children.

And you all condone the abuse. That's revealing.

I can't believe this thread. I have been on threads which turn into rucks in my time, but honestly - people snorting with derision because some posters have recommended supervising children while swimming?!

It is common sense to not swim alone. However good a swimmer you are. Cramp can, and does, strike at any time - I can only assume that those of you who are hooting with laughter at the suggestion that people tell their teens not to swim alone have never actually experienced being out of depth in water, and having a serious, debilitating cramp. It is terrifying.

I am not the best of swimmers, but can hold my own - slow, stolid type - not pretty, but good enough. I would not swim alone now, by choice.

My first thoguhts on reading the OP were: hmm, well I did that at that age (my best friend had a pool in the garden - I was over there often, and we were very, very good friends - ie more like sisters. we did not always do exactly the same thing at the same time, and both had free and open access to each other's homes. At the age of 10 (so a little older than the OP's ds, but not much) I would walk to her house (a 10 min walk) or she to mine. At hers, it happened several times that I would go for a swim by myself while she was watching tv. It was all ok. But, having had a few times in my teens where I had severe cramp in a swiming pool - surrounded by people who did not notice, and unable to easily raise attention, I shudder to think what might have happened when I was younger.

Woudl I be comfortable with my dds popping in and out of the pool like I did at that age, with no guaranteed supervision? No way.

I grew up on the beach, virtually. We (my brothers and I, plus children form another family) roamed off on our own form when I was 5/6 or so - eldest child would have been 12, I was the youngest). the only thing we were not allowed to do (we were all sensible children, so there was no chance the others would eg take me out swimming too far in the sea) was swim alone. there had to be a minimum of 3 of us at any one time.

I got complacent when I was older, and at my friend's house. It worked for me, luckily - and now I know better.

I would not let my dds do the same, because of my experiences. Thankfully, they have never been in difficulty in water - they have no idea how easy it is to get into difficulty, nor how terrifying, nor how hard it is to make others aware of your difficulties. I would be happy for this to remain the status quo, and I very much hope it does.

Silver you would not believe what was in the deleted posts.

It;'s also true that some posters seem incapable of distinguishing between a permanent ground level pool and one of those raised inflatable jobs that needs to be climbed up into. While others are having a lovely time working themselves into a screaming frenzy that they have been disagreed with - were you like this at school? Bawling your head off over tiny little disagreements, not just bleating to teacher but spending the rest of the day ostentatiously sobbing every time the other kids' attention wanders.

extraordinary things my children have done - which I can say with some high degree of probability are far more dangerous than things your children have done

Patronising and condescending no?

Nobody is in a screaming frenzy except possibly you with your abuse and aggression. If you don't want to be deleted you could control the way you post and cease to be so personally offensive.

lynehamrose You keep asking me for clarification, asking different questions along the swimming alone point but you have already actually acknowledged that I said an adult can decide for themselves whether to swim alone. And that they can assess the risks.

I have never said that people who live alone should not swim. I've lived alone and swam with other people. Your grandfather could go to a local pool, your grandfather could invite the neighbours around.

Why don't you take up this issue with your local lifeguard association if you are so passionate about it.

I don't swim alone. And no, I certainly wouldn't be encouraging any 17 year olds to swim alone. I would have hoped that would have been clear from my previous posts.

I also don't see swimming alone as a way to encourage independence at all.

I think everyone realises that car accidents happen as do drownings, both are tragic. This thread has been about swimming though.

Is that the best you can do to argue against the logic that competent swimmers. I didn't have any medical conditions when I got cramp - I'm not sure the other posters who posted their near drownings experience had medical conditions.

I do think the links that I recently posted are so much more important reading. I doubt anyone would leave their child to swim alone, or unsupervised after reading the BERR link.

gooseberry - I read it all over the weekend, but was not able to reply.

honestly, I thought the vax threads were the worst for nonsensical, over-hyped hysteria

which followed these, as a couple of examples, you'll find plenty more if you look

"I didnt suffocate my kids and stop them from experiencing independence as they grew up."

"Actually gooseberry a very great many of us here have successfully raised children through normal childhoods full of fun and adventure and allowed them to experience and learn about risk and danger. You seem to want to raise children who at 20 will be quite unable to cross the road at best and at worst will be too damned nervous to leave the bloody house. Get a grip and allow them a childhood."

Silverfrog, would you supervise a 15yr old in a large paddling pool??? I certainly wouldnt.