to think "dropping the kids off at nursery" does not mean "then go to the pub all day and turn up with random woman in tow at 4pm"?

[ButterpieandCheese]

Gah. I am possibly being unreasonable.

DH and I work from home (also out of home, so it's not like he is trapped in - 50% of work is around a 10 mile radius or so, 50% at home) and today only I had work on. However, we have just moved house and are having a housewarming gathering tomorrow, so there is plenty to be done. We are also pretty skint.

Today I got up after Dh and the kids (we take turns to do the really early shift, although I had been up with the baby in the night and DD1 had woken me up and spent half an hour clambering over the bed and telling me all about her favourite cereals that morning, so don't imagine a full 8 hours of peaceful slumber. I was also late to bed last night as I had to stay up to finish a report for work) and DH told me not to worry - he would drop the kids off, but could I please go on ebay and write down what needed posting to where as he was going to the post office as soon as he got back. Fair enough.

So, I got the ebay stuff done straight away, then sat down to do work on my laptop.

Anyway, after two hours I text him to see where he has got to. "ran into an old friend. She has social phobia too - you would get on well" (i don't have social phobia. I have general anxiety as a symptom of other problems, and anyway, why would that mean I would automatically get on with someone?) He did invite me for a coffee with them both, but I refused on the grounds that I had a mountain of work to do before a medical appointment that afternoon.

He texted again at 12.30, saying the same. I replied saying that actually the nurse was due here any minute. He replied saying that he was having a great time, asking silly questions of shopkeepers, and that he would be home in a minute. (?)

After the appointment, at 3.30, I texted again as he still hadn't turned up. He knows full well that this regular appoiontment always makes me much more anxious, btw. I tell him every week.

He replied with "home soon, sorry, is in quite a mess, I had to talk to her for ages". Then, at 4pm, he turns up, WITH RANDOM FRIEND IN TOW. No warning. I was on hold to the council, and then I had to ring the DLA people to have a personal conversation. I also had my laptop open as I was writing another report for work while on hold.

I said hello to friend, who then proceeded to ignore that I was on the phone and obviously working, and just chattered away, while DH disappered upstairs to do things related to ebay. When I got through to the council, I went through to the other room, so as not to be rude to his friend, and she followed me and kept trying to talk to me. Once I was off the phone, I apoligised but I really needed to make another phonecall, and so I went up to my bedroom to get the details. while I was up there I made the call, and afterwards I came out of my room to find DH, who told me he had brought this woman home so she could be my friend.

OK, so I am very shy, and so I can see that he was trying to help, but is turning up with no warning with a random mate when I am very busy the way to do it?

Anyway, I then decided that I should probably talk to the woman, so I went into DD1s room to get a bobble to tie back my hair (hadn't bothered to brush it as wasn't expecting to see anyone except the CPN, and I'm sure she has seen worse than messy hair). I turned round to see the woman in DD1s room, cornering me. The woman then, out of nowhere, said "Nick says you have mental health problems. I have social anxiety." then tried to hug me! I made the effort, I didn't push her away, despite being really, really not a huggy person, and I said "yeah...it's...difficult, isn't it? I had my nurse out today." and then the woman got really overexcited and started asking me why the nurse comes out to see me in my house and all sorts (I couldn't make out a lot of what she was saying as she was slurring her words). I just said I didn't know and apoligised again, but I WAS REALLY BUSY and so could she please GO AND FIND DH.

Then, despite the fact that I was clearly very busy, he then told his friend that he had to go and pick up the kids (Fridays are the only full day they have in nursery, so very precious for getting stuff done) but she could stay here and have a brew with me, as we were clearly getting on like a house on fire (!)

I then thought that I would just have to be outright rude and said "no, actually, I'm really busy, you will have to entertain your own guest I'm afriad." And he just looked at me and asked her again if she wanted to stay while he went out.

Luckily, she got the MASSIVE hint and left at that point.

I know I was rude, but really, I obviously don't mind his friends coming round, but expecting me to entertain them is a bit much, no? Plus the spending all day at the pub when there is loads of work to be done. (luckily he didn't seem drunk - he had said he was drinking coffee, so that must be true)

Anyway, I know I am being unreasonable to be so rude to someone apparently having trouble, but if DH had let me know at any point that she was coming I could have had a quick tidy and done all my urgent work before she came.

Butterpie, are you around today? How are things?

Hi Butterpie

you won't remember me, but I sorta 'know' you from home ed, your wedding planning threads, and your dp from Giving Up Smoking (where he was, to my mind, being a tit- which is no doubt why it's lodged in my memory)

I think on reading this thread that he's not being manipulative, controlling, all the rest of it- well, he definitely won't see himself like that at all- he just seems to be consumed by this big sort of Romance thing (which, imo, is often linked with knowledge/appreciation of The Poetic, together with boooooze.) A lot of teens behave like this- but usually people grow out of it before they hit their thirties, and he obviously hasn't

(cf Russell Brand )

sorry, might have missed this upthread- but do you have any RL mutual friends you can approach with this one? is just that it looks really shit in print, to people who don't know the pair of you, but you might get another perspective off folk who do?

don't get me wrong, I think he's being dreadful. But I'm seeing it out of the context of what you're normally like to each other, how he is with the dcs, etc etc...

sorry for waffle.

Hello again, Butterpie.

I can't tell you that you should leave, because I have no idea what is best for you. I'm merely words on a screen.

But I can tell you that it always seems like him being heartbreakingly unreasonable and/or thoughtless when I read your posts, and some have really stuck in my head. I'd like my post to help you feel more confident about setting boundaries. i hope the following helps you. If it doesn't, I heartily apologise.

Someone posted earlier that she thought the boundaries might be blurred, because you used to have threesomes when you were younger and had more time. I know that, since then, more details have come out, so it's not that relevant a discussion point any more, but I'm going to ramble at you anyway.

The boundaries weren't blurred, at all, because it's an issue of deceit and knowledge. You didn't know what was going on in advance, and he tried to conceal it all afterwards.

I have a friend who always has open relationships (she is by her own description "over-sexed" ), and she is very clear about that line. It doesn't matter whether she or her partner have done A, B, or C before, you must never presume that A, B, C, (or indeed D) are okay now. You must ask, and discuss.

I entirely agree with you that in our culture we blame the Other Woman too much, while the cheating man gets off scot-free. However, that doesn't mean you should like her. She didn't break any promise to you, but she wasn't particularly considerate of your feelings, was she? I doubt I will ever knowingly be an Other Woman, because I simply don't know many people I hate enough to willingly be a party to their betrayal.

Another point: you say "it was just a kiss". Well, yes. Unfortunately, I don't believe that's all he wants it to be. His facebook messages read like he's thinking of himself as the protagonist in a romantic tragedy, who really tries to resist his baser impulses, but doesn't quite manage it. He's deliberately setting himself up to fail with all this "I can flirt but that's all"; it sounds like his game plan is to repeatedly place himself in temptation's way. When they inevitably end up consummating the affair, he'll honestly believe it isn't his fault, because he resisted for so long, and that he just couldn't help it, honest. He'll think that their emotions were so pent-up, he would have had to been superhuman to have restrained himself. Completely missing the point that he intentionally built their feelings to such a crescendo in the first place, and that he could have entirely avoided it months back with a simple, but kind message like, "you're a lovely person, but I love my wife, blah, blah".

Instead, it's seductive but-I'm-not-seducing-you-honest-I'm-just-saying-what-it-could-be-like messages.

Again, I don't know what you should do, but I'd like you to feel reassured that you're being reasonable.

I think we've all got the measure of this bloke pretty well (Springheeled - we all get the romantic protagonist bit, but as you say most people grow out of this - it's tit like behaviour in a 35 year old man and what's more seems to be contributing to the illness of his wife). I hope ButterPie is OK.

Relate tomorrow.

I told my mental nurse what he had been up to, she was shocked. I had been too ashamed to tell her till today.

Thanks for all your support. I know you will think I'm an idiot, but I want things to work out. I can't just give up.

I get confused when I'm talking to him though. How can I keep my mind on what I want to say?

I just want to get my thoughts straight. I've just took my drugs for tonight, I added in some sleeping tablets, told him he has to get up woth the kids tonight. If I don't start getting my mind straight in the next half hour, I might have a half dose of diazepam too. I try not to take the extra drugs if I can, usually DH is in charge of them (drs orders) but he can bugger off.

I was crying walking through the shopping centre today, listening to the Dresden Dolls. How pathetic is that, from a fully grown mum of two?

I baked bread, DH came in to find me kneading very vigorously and asked me who I was imaging in the dough. I just glared at him.

How does Relate work?

Love, it doesn't matter if you were cast from solid gold, with diamonds for teeth and sapphires for eye, you literally could not be doing any more than you are right now to help this relationship survive.

Sadly, your 'H' is doing the exact opposite. Added to this he is actively sabotaging your health and recovery, and he is lying, cheating and gaslighting.

PLEASE tell him to leave, for a break if nothing else, he is not CARING for you, he is actively making your situation WORSE.

PLEASE stop blaming yourself, none of this is your doing.

Oh butterpie :( I'm sorry you feel so awful. It is entirely down to your H.

Best of luck tomorrow - are you going alone? Is H aware of it?

You're stronger than you think, you can get through this whatever happens.

Keep us posted in case we can help x

Oh butterpie.

I think I'm slow my response, I'm sure that there have been many replies before mine, but here are my thoughts:

I don't think you're an idiot

The confusion is borne entirely of abuse

It is not pathetic to cry.

He was fucking with your head with the dough

I'm on my own, I have 2 kids, I would rather be alone, with my boys, than be with this helmet, and allow him to defile me and my children with his selfishness for one single moment more.

And I am a lone parent.

I didn't just get ill when I got with him. I have had bipolar for a long time. I used to do things like stay out all night, pass out in taxi offices, spend all the money, quit jobs for no good reason, take ODs and stuff. I had a bad birth with my first baby and that tipped me over the edge. Because I had a baby, I think people took it more seriously and I finally started to get help. I have been treated for psychosis so I do doubt myself quite a lot. I have lost count of the times I have been discharged only because he was there to watch me. I will never be able to function completely normally, I never really have, but I am just getting to the point where I appear normal most of the time.

I always thought it a bit of a miracle that I had got married and had children. (except when I've been manic, in which times I have been known to think it an actual Miracle, but those are the joys of mental illness - better than I imagine any drug to be)

SIGH. It is really hard work knowing me, I know that. It must be even harder living with me, trying to sheild the kids from realising what I'm like.

Gah.

I'm sure it can be difficult living with somebody with any mental illness - no excuse for your h to be such a dick though.

Butterpie, your responses are utterly heartbreaking.

He has you exactly where he wants you - dependent, frightened, anxious, scraed of your own shadow :(.

I don't know what else to say.

If you are determined to stay in this hideously dysfunctional relationship, (and it sounds like might be) then nothing anyone else says will make much difference but it may help to think about things from a different perspective.

Do you want your children to be where you are now? Because childrfen learn first from mum and dad how to behave and what families are like.

How would you feel if you were a mother reading this about her daughter, or if this happened to your best friend?

Sorry for typos - tired.

Hope you get some rest tonight Butterpie.

I hope you are getting the right help, especially for the sake of your children x

Will relate even see me though? Given that I already have a pretty comprehensive list of people who help me.

we're going together. I think I will write down in bulletpoints why I am upset, then he can't avoid it.

Was so tempted to just stay on the bus today. Go somewhere new. Get out of my head drunk. Not come back. I was even planning on how I could get messages and check the kids were ok.

When I was putting out my drugs for tonight, I stood and stared at the packets for ages.

I can't do that to the kids. all I want is for things to be simple, for DH to get a 9-5 job and go to the pub to watch football with his mates once a week or something. I could have friends round for brews once we had done the school run, then I could have a part time job, I could do an ou degree. DH could do an ou degree!

I just wnt to stop thinking. If I could just turn my brain off from going over everything he has ever said.

((hugs))

I hope relate helps you with your recovery - wherever that leads you.

Is that you butterpie?

I used to stay out and get pissed, pass out, spend money, quit jobs I hated.

Is that you butterpie?

I was just going to suggest you write things down if you are worried about getting across what you want to say. I would suggest doing this for your Relate appointment as well as when you are talking to your H in the meantime.

Please don't be so hard on yourself Butterpie. No it isn't easy living with somebody who has mental illness but if they are ill, then you do what you can not to mess with their heads or to deliberately or even accidentally make them worse.

Whether the situation can be rectified I don't know - maybe counselling, either together or individually will help, maybe not. Whatever happens don't make this all your fault. It isn't. Don't take responsibility for his bad behaviour. I reckon you are in a dangerously codependent relationship with your H - you have to face the fact that you aren't good for each other and you might be better off apart than together even if you can't see that now.

I hope you get some help from Relate to sort out whatever it is that is best for you. Take care of yourself.

It's me - why?
I'm just so sad tonight. Overwhelmingly sad.

Sleeping tabs kicking in I suppose.
I think I'll take my diazepam with me tomorrow. I find that I panic less with it in my pocket, because I know that if things get too bad I can just take it and my head will clear. I don't take it outside the house though as sometimes I cannn't walk....
i am sick of all this. sick of nothing being simple.

I hve enough tablets prescribed to fell shaun ryder.
never been a druggy person, but I can see hte attrtion.
she lives in this town. she could be lVughing vt mt she knows my hose
sjr met my bVbies

go to sleep on settee...if keep waking up, more pills
just to shut my brain off

Don't take too many butterpie.

You sound a bit off to me. Wait I'll PM You

Are you okay butterpie. Been lurking and am a bit concerned re your last post

I will never be able to function completely normally, I never really have, but I am just getting to the point where I appear normal most of the time.

You will ButterPie.

I escaped an emotionally, mentally and physically abusive relationship after 10 years. I suffered mentally and do to this day. I am so much better now. You WILL come through this.

Please stay in touch with your MH team and be 100% honest with Relate. You don't have to hide anything. You have done nothing wrong

You are taking a lot of medication but by the sounds of things you have been in his hands at home care-wise. I am extremely worried to tell the truth. I don't think that is a good situation. This man is mentally and emotionally abusing you. It may not be his conscious intention, he may not be well himself or he may just be ignorant. But he IS toxic. You have to start at least removing responsibility for your care from him. He is not capable of helping you, in fact he is actively harming you. Whether that is intentional or not is beside the point.

You are the Mother of two little children who depend on you, and YOU yourself are equally important. Just because you've been unwell so far in your adult life does not follow you can't get better. You can. Definitely.

You've been through so much in your young life. Lots of people would have crumbled under less.

But don't be fearful of getting help. I promise you it's the right thing to do. You will feel better and safer and more together.

Good luck tomorrow x