to think "dropping the kids off at nursery" does not mean "then go to the pub all day and turn up with random woman in tow at 4pm"?

[ButterpieandCheese]

Gah. I am possibly being unreasonable.

DH and I work from home (also out of home, so it's not like he is trapped in - 50% of work is around a 10 mile radius or so, 50% at home) and today only I had work on. However, we have just moved house and are having a housewarming gathering tomorrow, so there is plenty to be done. We are also pretty skint.

Today I got up after Dh and the kids (we take turns to do the really early shift, although I had been up with the baby in the night and DD1 had woken me up and spent half an hour clambering over the bed and telling me all about her favourite cereals that morning, so don't imagine a full 8 hours of peaceful slumber. I was also late to bed last night as I had to stay up to finish a report for work) and DH told me not to worry - he would drop the kids off, but could I please go on ebay and write down what needed posting to where as he was going to the post office as soon as he got back. Fair enough.

So, I got the ebay stuff done straight away, then sat down to do work on my laptop.

Anyway, after two hours I text him to see where he has got to. "ran into an old friend. She has social phobia too - you would get on well" (i don't have social phobia. I have general anxiety as a symptom of other problems, and anyway, why would that mean I would automatically get on with someone?) He did invite me for a coffee with them both, but I refused on the grounds that I had a mountain of work to do before a medical appointment that afternoon.

He texted again at 12.30, saying the same. I replied saying that actually the nurse was due here any minute. He replied saying that he was having a great time, asking silly questions of shopkeepers, and that he would be home in a minute. (?)

After the appointment, at 3.30, I texted again as he still hadn't turned up. He knows full well that this regular appoiontment always makes me much more anxious, btw. I tell him every week.

He replied with "home soon, sorry, is in quite a mess, I had to talk to her for ages". Then, at 4pm, he turns up, WITH RANDOM FRIEND IN TOW. No warning. I was on hold to the council, and then I had to ring the DLA people to have a personal conversation. I also had my laptop open as I was writing another report for work while on hold.

I said hello to friend, who then proceeded to ignore that I was on the phone and obviously working, and just chattered away, while DH disappered upstairs to do things related to ebay. When I got through to the council, I went through to the other room, so as not to be rude to his friend, and she followed me and kept trying to talk to me. Once I was off the phone, I apoligised but I really needed to make another phonecall, and so I went up to my bedroom to get the details. while I was up there I made the call, and afterwards I came out of my room to find DH, who told me he had brought this woman home so she could be my friend.

OK, so I am very shy, and so I can see that he was trying to help, but is turning up with no warning with a random mate when I am very busy the way to do it?

Anyway, I then decided that I should probably talk to the woman, so I went into DD1s room to get a bobble to tie back my hair (hadn't bothered to brush it as wasn't expecting to see anyone except the CPN, and I'm sure she has seen worse than messy hair). I turned round to see the woman in DD1s room, cornering me. The woman then, out of nowhere, said "Nick says you have mental health problems. I have social anxiety." then tried to hug me! I made the effort, I didn't push her away, despite being really, really not a huggy person, and I said "yeah...it's...difficult, isn't it? I had my nurse out today." and then the woman got really overexcited and started asking me why the nurse comes out to see me in my house and all sorts (I couldn't make out a lot of what she was saying as she was slurring her words). I just said I didn't know and apoligised again, but I WAS REALLY BUSY and so could she please GO AND FIND DH.

Then, despite the fact that I was clearly very busy, he then told his friend that he had to go and pick up the kids (Fridays are the only full day they have in nursery, so very precious for getting stuff done) but she could stay here and have a brew with me, as we were clearly getting on like a house on fire (!)

I then thought that I would just have to be outright rude and said "no, actually, I'm really busy, you will have to entertain your own guest I'm afriad." And he just looked at me and asked her again if she wanted to stay while he went out.

Luckily, she got the MASSIVE hint and left at that point.

I know I was rude, but really, I obviously don't mind his friends coming round, but expecting me to entertain them is a bit much, no? Plus the spending all day at the pub when there is loads of work to be done. (luckily he didn't seem drunk - he had said he was drinking coffee, so that must be true)

Anyway, I know I am being unreasonable to be so rude to someone apparently having trouble, but if DH had let me know at any point that she was coming I could have had a quick tidy and done all my urgent work before she came.

"any ideas for him to make friends without booze being involved would be great - he wants to avoid temptation for a while."

Does he now?

My advice is get your mind off him and to not give him ANY attention or reinforcement at all this week.

Focus on you Butterpie.

What did she say to the cut of the contact? Did she react?! Glad he is not in contact with her

Is he happy to do this btw or is he being all grumpy about it?

I agree with Animation - focus on yourself now, and your gorgeous girls - let DH deal with his own health.

He suggested it! It took him a while to realise how bad the situation is, but then he started suggesting things left right and centre. He did try to make out I was being paranoid at first in relate, but I think actually hearing it out loud made him realise.

I'm not jumping for joy quite yet. In fact I'm still dreadfully sad - I found myself crying today over my Grandad dying months ago. I just couldn't cope with DD1 lying about wetting herself, and went on a rant at her about how wetting herslef isn't naughty, but she shouldn't lie, and lying is really bad and mummy needs her to tell the truth...and then I stopped myself and invented something I had to do so i could go and cry. Poor little thing.

How did i turn into the boring one?

We used to lounge at the side of nightclubs, all eyeliner, leopard print and feathers. We used to wear clothes that were too big to make us look skinny. We used to drink gin from teacups, play scrabble and have friends round to celebrate anything and everything. We used to listen to Radio 4 and argue about poetry.

how did i end up crying to a relate councillor about doing all the housework and putting on a smile for the kids? how did my main stress relief become kneading bread?

You are not boring, you take the responsibility of having children seriously and you grew up. Having kids is so so hard and our life is taken up by looking after them in these early years. You are not alone in thinking where did the carefree days go - but we made a choice to have kids and you sound like you are doing a great job so don't be too hard on yourself.
X

I actually think being able to knead bread is very interesting. That's a great talent. I can only buy bread - I prefer to bake cakes. Not to disrespect your former hobbies, Butterpie, but what you do now is far more interesting. And you can still oversized clothes and listen to Radio 4!! (a relative does that while cooking). Wear eyeliner and feathers while doing the housework!! - now THAT is rock and roll.

Crying to a counsellor is just admitting that you are human and that hard things are hard. Some parents don't even bother putting on a smile for the kids. You are doing a great job. P.S. Hope you don't mind me mentioning that I found you on another thread I was on - good luck with the school place!

Also just wanted to say what good work you seem to have achieved at the appointment today and in making all those plans for the kids. So pleased for you.

Thanks for clarifying those acronyms. Yes, how bonkers that health visitors (even junior/assistant ones) don't know what baby-led weaning is; the term and concept was introduced and recommended to us by our HVs!

I have read your whole story and never heard anything so bizare befor. I m speachless I don't know what advice to give you but only to wish you luck and don't be a push over you deserve to be treated better.

Just wanted to say on AA is he athiest or agnostic? The 'higher power' stuff can work with any type of spirituality (ie it doesn't have to be 'god'). I agree it doesn't work if you fundamentally believe that there is no higher power at all (and in my opinion it's difficult/impossible to properly do the steps as a full on athiest.

What DH did was to use the support network AA and their meetings provide for the first few (approx 6) months he needed them for just pretty much ignoring all the higher power stuff. Regardless of what you think of their idealology they are an excellent, unjudging, source of support.

I'm sorry for everything you're going through btw

Oh and radio 4 whilst needing the bread? :)

Seriously though, as my husband explained to me a few months ago being a bit 'boring' is part of having little kids! I have 'we're the boring ones who never go to parties' on a regular basis. It's a stage and it'll pass and then you get to decide whether it's something you want to do anymore anyway.

He's full on atheist, Dawkins style. although he was the one keen on catholic school, so maybe he is secretly spiritual, who knows?

he's always been indignant about aa receiving state support (particulary in the usa, but also here), but hopefully he can keep a lid on it. Then maybe he will mellow a bit, if they do good? They seem to be the only option anyway.

Richey Edwards apparently used his cat as the higher power, and I recently read a very useful blog post about applying the 12 steps to staying on medication, where the higher power was the doctors, so it seems it is possible... (not that richey edwards was the best example, and dh always preferred nicky wire, but there you go)

DH used me and his (then) unborn child. A lot of it depends how 'gody' the group is. Our only one (not UK) a vocal minority of members who spend a lot of time taking about 'god's plan'. I gather UK groups are different not least because they're much larger so the chance of someone getting the floor to talk about their relationship with god over and over is pretty low.

AA don't require you to believe in or even do the steps just to want to stop drinking.

I really hope it all continues to go well. Thinking of you, Butterpie.

Well, he's at the meeting now. He has been in contact with an old friend (a very vocal and definite lesbian, who lives on the other side of the country, and is in a comitted relationship) who gave up the booze a few years back, and apparently she is supporting him and convinced him to go and give the meetings a try. Fingers crossed.

I worked out what is unerving me so much about the "method" seeming to be the same with me and that other woman. Has anyone read the Rachel Papers? He told me recently that that book is very like how he used to pull. (the main character has extensive notebooks and formal methods to convince girls that he is educated and interesting)

from what i've read so far about him, he just sounds like a very insecure, needy man who doesn't face up to his problems.

it also sounds like he needs to define himself through cultural reference which is a bit tragic when you're not a teenager anymore.

i hope AA helps him though, i know that you absolutely don't need to be religious to follow the programme.

Have you thought of going to Al Anon for you? You need support through this process as well.

"it also sounds like he needs to define himself through cultural reference which is a bit tragic when you're not a teenager anymore."

I agree (as far as I can tell from butterpie's posts)

It's a bit like how teenagers often group themselves by the music they listen to - fine at college but one tends to grow out of it...

Reality, I'd also seen allusions to your story, but to read it in its entirety is truly inspirational. It's very hard to see what's going on in your life/situation the way it really is until afterwards, and it's fab that you managed to get out and do so well for yourself.

Butterpie - I am shocked that he is still claiming "you should be proud he didn't cheat" - I may be missing something here, but he did cheat. He cheated with the kiss, he cheated with the rather graphic conversations, he cheated disrespecting you by telling this other woman that basically, he wanted her and would have sex with her if it weren't for his marriage vows. The way he worded that, it wasn't "because I love DW more than anyone else, and respect her etc" but more about the sanctity of the vows, and not WHO he made them to. He needs to get that out of his head right now, he DID cheat and pride is the last thing he should be feeling. A boot to the head is a good start as an alternative.

As far as the other woman - she's trying to hard to sound airy fairy and intelligent and articulate, but to me, she just comes across as poorly educated and pretentious.

I hope you're ok, and can make the best out of an awful situation.

Also, whilst I'm sure "social phobia" exists and is a real condition, I'd say her diagnosis is more that she's a bit of a knob.

I've been thinking of going to al anon, but it's finding the time. Is there a website with info on? The only ones I can find are really vague. He's at a meeting now, and I found myself feeling jealous of that - how odd is that?

It's like, last night I had more trouble with reality (not the poster, actual reality, lol) and I wished I could just go and listen to other people who have had psychosis/bipolar/whatever. The only time I have met people who have been that ill has been when I was being paid to look after them, and I always wanted to tell them I knew how it felt, but it would have been unprofessional, and I've lost even that now, as apparently I'll never have a proper job again.

Even the mental health support group locally seems to be mostly depression. They definitely seemed alarmed when I filled out the little questionaire thing. Those things are always just about self harm/suicide though, aren't they, they tend to miss the point a bit with me.

Silly, really. Maybe I'm just not used to him being the one getting help.

Last night he tried it on, and i refused, and he said that I've been "off" with him for months. I did try to tell him that is because I find it hard to relax in bed with someone who hours before was shouting and slamming doors about, but it was hard to say. Suppose that is what relate is for. If they let me go.

It is hard for him, bless him. He was up most of last night with me, we would have rung crisis if we had had the number (they keep giving it to me, and I lose it), and he debated ringing nhs direct or whatever, but I came back into real life again and we know from past experience that they are a bit over cautious with these things. I suspect I have messed up my meds over the last few days. He usually keeps an eye on them, but I have been not letting him, and the little plastic dosage doodah was all wrong, with too many pills in and none in other bits where there should have been some. Nearly run out totally of tranquillisers too, and last time they were saying I won't be able to have more, and I should just have the sleeping pills, but I hate them as they don't work as well and have worse side effects.

I went to a kids party today, so I must be fine.

There's just too much going on, if it was just one issue, we could sort it out, but it's all tangled up.

Gah. Went to Relate today, and the woman asked why he goes to AA. She said "do you drink in the mornings? Do you drink several times a day? Are you always drunk? Well, I think we can safely say you are not an alcoholic then!"

Sigh. I think he's still sticking with AA - he went to a meeting tonight, then came home with a becks blue and a kebab. (God only knows) He doesn't need professionals telling him he is being unreasonably nagged to not drink though.

She also referred to the whole incident with that woman as a breakdown in communication. DH had arrived before me - what had he said to her?

The Relate woman basically said she is really iffy about taking us on, because I'm on medication, but she will, if I can promise that I won't be overly affected by anything we talk about. Now she wants me to go back next week, alone, to talk about how I feel when I am angry. Even though both of us said that I'm not an angry person - even DH said that I am sometimes very disorganised, but not angry - anger is his "thing". He is going the week after me. We have to pay £20 each week as well - that is half our food budget.

I just felt ganged up on and patronised. DH just outright denied how often he goes to the pub, when I said I was stuck in the house with the kids he just said they go to nursery, so I was lying. They are not at nursery when he is out at the pub in the evening, and they are not at nursery every day!

:( Maybe I am making unreasonable demands. To me, going to the pub three times a week, alone, lying to your wife about where you are, while she looks after your two children, then coming home and shouting and slamming doors is not good. he somehow twisted it into me being really controlling and jealous, and over reacting to a bit of robust debate.

Again, he tried to tell me not to come on here, that I should just go out and meet people IRL. I asked him where, and he just said that he manages it. Yes he does. In the pub. I live in a former mining town, the couple of times I have took a book to the pub by myself I have been stared at and harrassed. Yes, I used to go out by myself, to real ale biker pubs where I knew eveyone, this is different.

I was hoping relate would help me talk to him without him talking over me and interrupting me, but it's not happening, and is costing a fortune. I don't know what to do though.

When I say I can't manage without him, I mean I literally can't. I need someone to supervise my medication or I forget. I would not be able to cope with the kids totally alone. This is actually true - i get care DLA at the middle rate as I need somebody there at several points each day.

If I moved to my mums I would have to move to he other side of the country, and put up with all the drama going on there on top of much worse facilites and so on.

Plus, I love him. I want it to work. I really do.

Butterpie, Ive read your thread and been appalled by how he behaved - really, really shocked that you have to put up with this. In particular I am now disturbed by your relate counsellor. Straight off you have to know - if he is not telling the truth and if he is using it as an excuse to manipulate you further - and to push his version of events - you are wasting your money. I find the whole concept of couples counselling slightly iffy - it is not recommended where one partner is being dishonest or manipulative.

what seems to be lacking here is boundaries. Does your partner understand and know that if he doesn't change and start behaving more respectfully you will leave him? Because if you aren't prepared to set boundaries nothing will change. And to set boundaries you need to believe you can cope alone and that if he doesnt change you will be better off without him.

ask yourself - if you are saying you really cannot live without him, then you cant set boundaries can you? because they have nothing backing them up. And you cant live without boundaries in a relationshpi - so something here has to change.

You need your own counselling to develop some self confidence - and to ask why you put up with his lying/ cheating and general disrespect.