to think "dropping the kids off at nursery" does not mean "then go to the pub all day and turn up with random woman in tow at 4pm"?

[ButterpieandCheese]

Gah. I am possibly being unreasonable.

DH and I work from home (also out of home, so it's not like he is trapped in - 50% of work is around a 10 mile radius or so, 50% at home) and today only I had work on. However, we have just moved house and are having a housewarming gathering tomorrow, so there is plenty to be done. We are also pretty skint.

Today I got up after Dh and the kids (we take turns to do the really early shift, although I had been up with the baby in the night and DD1 had woken me up and spent half an hour clambering over the bed and telling me all about her favourite cereals that morning, so don't imagine a full 8 hours of peaceful slumber. I was also late to bed last night as I had to stay up to finish a report for work) and DH told me not to worry - he would drop the kids off, but could I please go on ebay and write down what needed posting to where as he was going to the post office as soon as he got back. Fair enough.

So, I got the ebay stuff done straight away, then sat down to do work on my laptop.

Anyway, after two hours I text him to see where he has got to. "ran into an old friend. She has social phobia too - you would get on well" (i don't have social phobia. I have general anxiety as a symptom of other problems, and anyway, why would that mean I would automatically get on with someone?) He did invite me for a coffee with them both, but I refused on the grounds that I had a mountain of work to do before a medical appointment that afternoon.

He texted again at 12.30, saying the same. I replied saying that actually the nurse was due here any minute. He replied saying that he was having a great time, asking silly questions of shopkeepers, and that he would be home in a minute. (?)

After the appointment, at 3.30, I texted again as he still hadn't turned up. He knows full well that this regular appoiontment always makes me much more anxious, btw. I tell him every week.

He replied with "home soon, sorry, is in quite a mess, I had to talk to her for ages". Then, at 4pm, he turns up, WITH RANDOM FRIEND IN TOW. No warning. I was on hold to the council, and then I had to ring the DLA people to have a personal conversation. I also had my laptop open as I was writing another report for work while on hold.

I said hello to friend, who then proceeded to ignore that I was on the phone and obviously working, and just chattered away, while DH disappered upstairs to do things related to ebay. When I got through to the council, I went through to the other room, so as not to be rude to his friend, and she followed me and kept trying to talk to me. Once I was off the phone, I apoligised but I really needed to make another phonecall, and so I went up to my bedroom to get the details. while I was up there I made the call, and afterwards I came out of my room to find DH, who told me he had brought this woman home so she could be my friend.

OK, so I am very shy, and so I can see that he was trying to help, but is turning up with no warning with a random mate when I am very busy the way to do it?

Anyway, I then decided that I should probably talk to the woman, so I went into DD1s room to get a bobble to tie back my hair (hadn't bothered to brush it as wasn't expecting to see anyone except the CPN, and I'm sure she has seen worse than messy hair). I turned round to see the woman in DD1s room, cornering me. The woman then, out of nowhere, said "Nick says you have mental health problems. I have social anxiety." then tried to hug me! I made the effort, I didn't push her away, despite being really, really not a huggy person, and I said "yeah...it's...difficult, isn't it? I had my nurse out today." and then the woman got really overexcited and started asking me why the nurse comes out to see me in my house and all sorts (I couldn't make out a lot of what she was saying as she was slurring her words). I just said I didn't know and apoligised again, but I WAS REALLY BUSY and so could she please GO AND FIND DH.

Then, despite the fact that I was clearly very busy, he then told his friend that he had to go and pick up the kids (Fridays are the only full day they have in nursery, so very precious for getting stuff done) but she could stay here and have a brew with me, as we were clearly getting on like a house on fire (!)

I then thought that I would just have to be outright rude and said "no, actually, I'm really busy, you will have to entertain your own guest I'm afriad." And he just looked at me and asked her again if she wanted to stay while he went out.

Luckily, she got the MASSIVE hint and left at that point.

I know I was rude, but really, I obviously don't mind his friends coming round, but expecting me to entertain them is a bit much, no? Plus the spending all day at the pub when there is loads of work to be done. (luckily he didn't seem drunk - he had said he was drinking coffee, so that must be true)

Anyway, I know I am being unreasonable to be so rude to someone apparently having trouble, but if DH had let me know at any point that she was coming I could have had a quick tidy and done all my urgent work before she came.

He used to have a thing for F Scott Fitzgerald too. There's another drunken arse of a role model for you. He's currently on Martin amis, although I never really got on with m amis - I think he writes in a bit too macho a style.

Honestly, this is a male roll call of fuckups as heroes which would be almost funny if it weren't playing with your mind.

Your children sound like they have gorgeous names, as an aside.

Yes Cathy and Heathcliffe from Wuthering Heights both pretty much had serious personality disorders!

I get the distinct impression that he sees himself as one of those irresistible, educated big drinking men. The fool.

I know you've had concerns about his drinking before and have often wondered if he is on the autistic spectrum?

I think he's probably not. I think he's just selfish.

After reading more of your posts I am starting to doubt you really want any advice as it looks like you are just going to put up with this. You say that all he did was kiss her when he has done so so much more. It doesn't seem like you can see it and I really fear for you. Think about yor children and the role model they have in him too.

he would often compare us to scott and zelda a few years back. Until there was a fire alarm when I was in hospital and I joked that if I had died in the fire, it would have been the same as zelda - then he stopped making the comparison.

Dear God this man just gets worse the more I read about him!

Btw Im 36 and would run a mile from this eejit. But thats by the by, its not my life.

Butterpie, please don't get yourself involved in any way with this woman, she sounds bloody awful.

'He just kissed her back'

Well that's not all really though is it. He spent a boozy afternoon seducing and encouraging her with the self-same same pseudo-intellectual scmaltz he used on you.

Look, maybe you don't want to be seen to be reactionary to the accepted conventions of modern relationships. Maybe you believe you and he transcend all that...maybe you feel if you are seen to be impervious to sexual jeaslousy and traditional mores.....heh

But maybe you are shooting yourself in the foot? Maybe you've striven so hard to rise above it all, that you've actually only succeeded in making yourself a perfect doormat?

And while you are splitting hairs about whose fault it is and being super right-on and understanding, he's eulogising on FB about his grubby wanks while you manage the kids/house and work! A lot of these literary Giants he so reveres were feckless pissheads, full of affectation and artistic angst. great excuse to leave a trail of emotional destruction behind them without having to actaully take any responsibility.

I've kind of been there, worn the t-shirt. These angsty fuckers often just turn out to be narcissistic cowards who can't make it in the real world when all is said and done.

Just don't expend SO much effort trying to be ultra-fair to everyone else at your own expense. It's ok to have needs and boundaries. Users and abusers don't want you to know that so they'll make out it's not 'cool' -it's psychobabble and so buttoned up and straight ....blah de blah

These tortured types oten just turn out to be deep and meaningless eejits who will say anything to get as much sex as they can.

Speaking as someone who is also an anxious, depressed, OCD and PTSD person...this is stuff you just don't need on your road to recovery. And maybe, once you are recovered, you will go about making Changes. I wish you all the best...

She sounds exactly like the creature woman that went after my DH. Who went on to stalk and harass me (to police intervention level) once caught bang to rights. But...look on the bright side...at least you don't have to live next door to it her :(

YANBU to be thoroughly peed off and confused by all of this...although we have never met, having been through almost identical scenarios, my very best wishes and thoughts are with you. I hope it all comes good for you soon. Unleash your inner tigress!

Well the litnus test that would prove you're ddealing with a narcissistic coward - you say you're leaving him and mean it - then watch him rage and go ballistic - he will!

Just read one of georgimama's earlier posts, she is spot on here I think.

To be quite brutal, he more or less has you in a prison. You work at home, you are struggling for money, two under 5s (am assuming), you are suffering with anxiety - which he seems to delight in stoking, and he is doing his best to isolate you from friends/other support.

Oh and he is too ashamed to claim HB even though you are struggling financially...but he can spend all day out larking about with Madam Loopdeloop?

I wonder, when was the last time you were able to fo something nice for yourself?

This is domestic abuse. Sorry, but it is.

He sounds like a pretentious pillock.

Sorry.

Butterpie, this kind of behaviour sounds so much like my ex-DH that I actually looked up your profile to see if it was likely you had married him! (except for the Byron bit - perhaps your DH would like to think of himself as being rather like Byron, mad bad and dangerous to know...but then Byron was not exactly a shining example of emotional intelligence was he?)

First of all avoid this other woman like the plague, she will just do your head in over and over, you will never get the truth out of her because she is obviously not mentally well and her problems are outside the scope of anyone who isn't a qualified professional IMO. Just don't have her in your life and insist that your DH does not contact her either as it can only end in tears.

Also your DH may quite sincerely believe he is being a good husband to you -and desperately want to be one - but as people have pointed out he has got boundary problems and twists things around and justifies them in his head so that what he wants appears to be the right thing to do.

For example if someone like this feels the urge to have an affair they will go as far as they can to have one without actually sleeping with the person, and they will feel that if they have taken the person home, introduced them, and made it clear that they have a wife and are not actually going to have sex then they can do what they like around that - since they haven't been unfaithful, or dishonest, have they? They can quite easily convince themselves that they really were trying to help the other person and help you - even though it's obvious to everyone else it's bollocks! (They also often are attracted to women who seem vulnerable in some way, which makes the situations they get into all the trickier. If you did get to be friends with this woman, God forbid, you could actually end up hearing all her problems and he getting jealous if she wants to spend more time with you!)

The problem with living with someone like this is that you end up having no confidence in your own judgement and that translates into no confidence in yourself. They can make night seem like day and you become very uncertain about what is real and what is not and if you are being unreasonable or selfish or not because you can never get them to see what they are doing. In fact, they may well accuse you of exactly what THEY are being/doing! They could hide behind a corkscrew. They believe their twisted version of the truth and can change the facts lightning fast to defend their view of things, being unaware that that is what they are doing. They can be so kind and sweet and funny, and make you feel safe and treasured, then they do something really out of order and you just cannot compute. When you try to assert yourself you get it all clear in your head then they turn it round and make it all about your dysfunction in some way and you don't know anything any more except that you feel awful, too awful to feel strong, too awful and too weak to take any drastic action.

They never do anything awful enough to make you feel 100% justified in walking out - they never quite completely cheat, or hit you, or do anything that you can necessarily clearly pinpoint as abuse, and you can point to all kinds of nice things they do do, or have done, but somehow you can never quite know when they are going to let you down again, it's all so confusing and that makes you much more prone to manipulation than you would be.

Does any of that sound familiar? If so, I do understand if right now you don't feel if you can rock the boat. Further down the line you can come on here for support if you do want to get out, but it's not easy, is it?

But what you MUST do is stop looking to your DH for validation or this woman for the truth. Neither of them know what the truth is any longer. Basically this is more about the vanity and insecurity of both of them anyway I'd guess. Stop expecting reasonable behaviour from unreasonable people. Your DH is never going to validate your perceptions if they threaten his image of himself and his actions. So don't get tied up in knots trying to persuade him or make sense of what he says. Focus on what YOU want. Firmly state that you're not comfortable with x, y, z, and be prepared to keep defending and restating the boundaries. You cannot make him comply but you can protect yourself by deciding how you will react. As you get used to looking after yourself and trusting your own perceptions you will feel stronger and more confident.

I don't know if this rings true for you, please take whatever seems helpful to you and ignore the rest! Hope your DD is better now and you get a good night's sleep without tossing and turning and trying to make sense of it all. You are worth more than this. Remember that!

Good grief - FrickleFeckle - your assessment of this type of character is so spot on!

I also knew someone just like this too - they suck you dry emotionally.

I have to ask.

What, exactly is in it for you with continuing with this man?

What is he for? So your first boyfriend was a tosser, that doesn't mean you have to stay with another one?

He is getting off on all the drama, the dude is a freak. Unless you enjoy all this shit as well, ditch him.

butterpie here is a much needed very un-MN . Hope you are ok x

Butterpie I do understand if this particular incident is not enough to end the relationship. Everyone has different tolerance levels I guess.

But in order to move forward from this, you have to make sure it doesn't happen again, right? You cannot let him do this with the same, or another, woman. You need to make it crystal clear that nothing like this will be tolerated again.

Do you think that would work? I'm not sure I do. :(

I'm intrigued by his previous - has he ever had a relationship with somebody who wasn't vulnerable in some way?

I won't add much to the good advice you have been given, but I will add a short anecdote.

I was at university reading English Literature and one day went to a new seminar wearing a vintage dress - dark blue with a high collar and slightly puffy sleeves. Possibly a little Victorian in look. A male mature student seemed totally taken with me and, as soon as there was a break in the session, came over to say that what with my pale skin and curly hair I looked like this or that literary heroine. He was very flattering, quite flirtatious and obviously we were into the same books etc so we had a great conversation and walked back to the main part of the campus together. He also talked at length about his own life, novel writing, poetry composition etc. However, after a while we said goodbye and I went on my way, quite intrigued and flattered but not going to take it any further as I had a boyfriend.

A few days later I had a bucket of cold water moment when I happened to see him collecting his two children from the campus nursery - his wife and family had strangely not featured in his narratives...

In the end it turned out that his marriage broke down during the course as he was sleeping with young female students on a regular basis!

Sue - done what for the right reasons??

introduced her to someone with similiar issues may have been a bumbling (albeit insensitive) attempt to make a friend.

Oh I c

yeah I must have oh dear OP excuse me

Just read omg bury the bastard seriously

g2g