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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to NOT have smacked DS1 when he bit and kicked me

196 replies

LargeLatte · 05/04/2011 20:10

Long - sorry.

DS1 (5yr 10mo) has had an hour long melt down. We were leaving my Grandad's, I gave him fair warning first, then when I went to put his shoes on he kicked me.

I told him not to kick me, I kept my cool, put him in the car while he bit down on my arm, then as I leant across he bit into my back.

As I reversed the car he undid his seat belt, so I got out and went to strap him back in, and he sprinted past me and down the drive.

My Grandad's pearl of wisdom - 'you can't let him do that to you'- I think the implication being that I should've hit him back.

I caught him, put him back in the car and said (again still amazingly calmly) 'If you hurt me again or undo your seat belt we won't watch your cartoon before bed'. Result - still swearing and angry but otherwise a safe drive home.

I opened the car door and off he ran down the road, really fast - have got him home safe and sound after a few minutes.

I'm not a smacker. I'm not a shouter. I do natural / logical consequences, but I can't help but think that if I had lost it with him when he first kicked me (like many other parents I have seen) he would've just bl00dy behaved himself!

OP posts:
GingerWrath · 05/04/2011 21:06

Smacking is not illegal..hitting is...

BitOfFun · 05/04/2011 21:06

Largelatte, you really do need to find some way of credibly asserting yourself here and locating your inner Ghengis. 5+ is awfully old to be having hour long tantrums in the first place (and I say this as the parent of a child with special needs and extremely challenging behaviour btw, so I don't think I've got rose-tinted glasses either)- how is his behaviour around other adults and at school?

RumourOfAHurricane · 05/04/2011 21:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

mamadoc · 05/04/2011 21:09

I am also very surprised by the number of people in favour of smacking. Teachers, childminders, nurseries etc seem to manage without doing it. In some other countries it is illegal. There has to be a better way.
In my opinion if you hit your child you teach them that it is OK to hit others.
Clear expectations of behaviour, praise for good behaviour, warning then time out and apology for bad has always been quite enough for us. For longer term stuff reward charts. OK she is only 3 but it is working so far.
If she did something as bad as OPs son I think I would react similarly by withdrawing a privilege. We would also talk about it later and I would make it clear that more consequences would follow if behaviour was repeated and get an apology. So far she hasn't...

MmeLindt · 05/04/2011 21:09

Smacking is not illegal..hitting is...

Ginger - that is the most ridiculous comment I have ever read on MN.

millie30 · 05/04/2011 21:11

I think waiting until you are perfectly calm and then deliberately inflicting physical pain on a small child is sick. I also fail to see how smacking can be an effective punishment for smacking! You lose the moral highground.

squeakytoy · 05/04/2011 21:11

I think Ginger is parenting very well. Children do need discipline, and need to behave for their own personal safety. If a child is warned that he or she will get a smacked leg or bottom if they carry on misbehaving, and they stop before the smack, all well and good. If they stop after a smack, then they are less likely to repeat the behaviour next time they get warned.

Children are not equals to their parents, nor are they mini-adults. Parents have to be in control and children do need to respect their parents and have a fear of punishment if they behave. I am not talking about beating a child, there is a huge difference between a sharp smack on the legs or bottom, and hitting or punching, which IS abuse.

Gemsy83 · 05/04/2011 21:11

You may feel it makes you a shit parent- the OP does NOT smack but is hardly coming across as an effective parent from how her nearly six year old behaved today

GingerWrath · 05/04/2011 21:11

Mme...NOT..there is a difference. A smack is a short sharp shock that leaves no lasting damage. Hitting leaves bruises and potential broken bones.

DuplicitousBitch · 05/04/2011 21:13

striking a child is the lazy, cowardly, brutish way to correct behaviour. nobheads

GingerWrath · 05/04/2011 21:14

Thank you Squeaky, I am just saying it is not done in temper where it could get out of control but as a means to instill there are some things I will absolutely not tolerate.

Maelstrom · 05/04/2011 21:14

I'm not a smacker or a shouter either, but bloody hell if my son did that to me I wouldn't be saying 'If you hurt me again or undo your seat belt we won't watch your cartoon before bed', I would have thought of a better punishment, perhaps banning TV for a full week.

YANBU unreasonable not to smack your child, but I think YABU in allowing him to do that to you. I think he has gone well beyond the limits with that behaviour, as much as he cares for his cartoon, caring for the cartoon doesn't show that he respects you, only that he cares for that cartoon.

I'm sorry.

BitOfFun · 05/04/2011 21:14

Ginger is quite correct though, MmeL. An open hand is deemed reasonable chastisement, a closed fist isn't.

Mamadoc- I don't think that people are in favour of smacking per se (it's not something I have done more than once or twice), but that there are certain situations in which a child needs to appreciate that the wrath of Khan will descend if they behave in the kind of way the OP's child did here.

CeliaFate · 05/04/2011 21:15

I would have a 2 pronged approach here. When he's calm I would tell him that biting/hitting/removing his seatbelt is completely unacceptable and could have serious consequences such as him being hurt if I braked suddenly, Mummy being hurt through biting.
Then when he was calm I would say because you did xxx when I asked you not to and you knew it was naughty, you will not have xxx. And stick to it. He will cry, he will wail, he will rant. Put him in his room and hold the door shut if needs be for 5 minutes.

At almost 6, I would be concerned about this behaviour. Could he have a reaction to food additives that make him behave this way? He should be able to accept boundaries/consequences at this age without hurting you or endangering himself.

Gemsy83 · 05/04/2011 21:16

Nobheads? And you are somehow wanting the moral highground? Hmm

MmeLindt · 05/04/2011 21:16

Gemsy
Which is why she is posting on MN to ask for advice how else she could deal with her son. Not to be told that she is a failure.

Ginger
Violence is violence, no matter what force their is behind it.

My children are generally very well behaved. Of course they have their moments, but I am often complimented on their behaviour. They know their boundaries.

Why should you need to use violence to enforce boundaries? I find that a withdrawl of privileges is much more effective that a slap.

Original poster
LargeLatte · 05/04/2011 21:16

helium - when I told him that anymore hurting me or taking his seat belt off would result in removal of our snuggle time (in front of cartoon) he did not do either one again - so I know he was regaining control. He was swearing at me in the car. That is because I had not listed that in the list of things not to do - that is normal behaviour for him as he is very literal indeed (a blanket rule of 'be good' would be totally pointless, I would need to list the do's and don'ts, even though obviously they don't change on a daily basis).

If I hadn't been driving the car I would have not tolerated the swearing, but I don't believe I can effectively communicate while driving so I had to choose between pulling over and telling him not to swear at me or blah blah blah - or just pretending I couldn't hear him over the stereo and getting home - and I really needed to get home as I was meeting my mum there who had ds2.

I would've spoken to him about the swearing but then I forgot in all the drama of running away.

Just to clarify - I don't swear in front of my children but he goes to school and comes home and asks 'is it ok to say you're a little f**r' - and I tell him no, and then I won't hear it again - until he goes completely bonkers like tonight.

OP posts:
RumourOfAHurricane · 05/04/2011 21:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Gemsy83 · 05/04/2011 21:17

OP are you not worried that if your child at this age has so little concern for consequences (i.e none) of his actions what he will be like as a teenager?

GingerWrath · 05/04/2011 21:18

DBitch..well there you go.. am not lazy, cowardly or brutish...I am a Mum that believes in discipline and respect, basic manners and respect for elders. DD has been praised from nursery to school, from social situations to tea at her friends' for how polite and well behaved she is. So obviously I am an abusive cow.

clayre · 05/04/2011 21:19

I have a ds a similar age and that behavior is totally unacceptable, I think the op should address her ds behavior and she wouldnt have to worry smacking him or not!

MmeLindt · 05/04/2011 21:19

BOF
Legalities here or there (and it is illegal in Germany and I believe in Switzerland) I cannot believe how many posters are advising the OP to smack her child.

Smack, slap, hit, punch - all variations of the same theme of violence.

BitOfFun · 05/04/2011 21:19

Even "shouting" doesn't have to mean yelling hysterically- it's all about the tone. That you will brook no opposition. My own mother had her Death Stare honed to a fine art- she only had to raise an eyebrow to stop me dead in my tracks.

Whatever17 · 05/04/2011 21:19

I have said that I did it wrong in the dim and distant past when DS1 (20) was little and I smacked him about 5 times in his life.

And I think I was wrong and that smacking is wrong.

I am pretty sure that raising your hand to anyone, especially smaller than you, is illegal.

It certainly is in Sweden.

Whatever17 · 05/04/2011 21:20

And we are in the EU.