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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Making a 4 year old prepare her own packed lunches ?

200 replies

OnEdge · 30/03/2011 00:13

I have recently began making her pack her own lunches the night before pre school, put the bag in the fridge, carry it the next day and then when she gets home, she empties it, washes the bag out and puts it away.

I just mentioned this on facebook to my friend who was moaning about having to do all the lunches. She seemed a bit shocked that I make her do it.

Am I expecting too much from her? She also empties the dishwasher every day and puts some clothes away into the wardrobe.

I thought that if she was old enough to be able to do it then she ought to do it for herself. I do use it as a chance to discuss nutrition. As she chooses stuff to go in it, we talk about why it is healthy or not. (that sounds a bit smug but I'm really not normally) I have noticed that since she has started doing it herself it comes home empty too.

OP posts:
microfight · 30/03/2011 10:05

YANBU
In my experience some children love the responsibility. My 28 month old scrapes her left overs into the bin and loads her own plate and cutlery in the dishwasher simply because she copies me. I have never asked her to do it but always say thank you etc when she does. I also encourage her to tidy her own toys. She also knows the steps to make pies and other dishes because she is always involved when I cook. She insists on being involved in fact. It makes it much harder to cook but it's another life skill in my view.
In my opinion, as well as give lots of love, being a parent is about teaching children to be self sufficent little steps at a time.
So no you are not being unreasonable in my view.

seeker · 30/03/2011 10:05

Well, obviously I didn't mean hand them the chain saw and tell them to go and prune tha ancestral oak! (do you prune oaks?). But yes, a real knife at 4 - why not?

Yellowstone · 30/03/2011 10:09

There seems to be a misplaced assumption that if you do this stuff for your kids until they're much older than four they'll be lazy. That certainly doesn't have to follow.

Morloth · 30/03/2011 10:11

Much fun was had watching DS try to lift the vacuum off the wooden floor when he went 'offroading' from the carpet.

Dyson, the vacuum that doesn't lose suction, I could have shown him the release or turned it off, but why turn down free entertainment.

Rebecca41 · 30/03/2011 10:12

Unless she's one of these "happy little Mummy's helper" type girls, I think it's a bit mean to be honest. 4 is very young to expect a child to learn that there is plenty of drudgery in life. From what I've seen, children who are forced to be helpful and independent from an early age (beyond that which is expected of their peers) tend to rebel when they're older, and become sulen and uncooperative teenagers and resently adults. There are plenty more years ahead between now and teens to teach her some life skills, no need to do it so young.

And OP, I appreciate that you're busy with 4 under 4 and all that, but it's not really your DD's fault you have so many kids is it! I would limit the number of children I had to the number I felt I could reasonably cope with, and I wouldn't be factoring into that equation the amount of help I could get from one of my existing children.

gorionine · 30/03/2011 10:14

depending on the knife yes of course I was just pointing to the fact that whatever you are ok with a child pretending to do, it does not necessarely means they are ready for the real deal.

Now I am the only one thinking there is a huge difference between a 3-4 yo helping arround the house (following mum and copy or do the thing with some help) and actually giving chore to children the same age where they have to do the thing? I think it is the word chore that makes me ubnconfortable, not the helping arround but the feeling it is a responsability for the child. That I do admit I think is too much for a 4yo.

My 4yo loves sweeping the kitchen, hang laundry, clean dishes...and I so ask her to "help" with it but I would not expect her to do it to actually help at that stage or to actually do a good enough job so I do not have to do it myself again -when she is not lookingSmile- I do not know how to explain really well what I mean though, sorry.

Pagwatch · 30/03/2011 10:15

Yellowstone

I don't think is the assumption at all.
I just think that if you introduce it when children are young, regard it as a natural function of living in a family and give it barely a thought it isceasy.

If a child is older and is then given 'chores' after many years of doing nothing, it may feel like drudgery or a burden which has been given to them - usually by their mother. Not nearly so natural nor so pleasant.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2011 10:17

I think there's a balance. It is very important that children learn life skills like making their lunch, bedmaking, how dirty laundry goes from the bedroom floor to become clean laundry in the drawer. It sounds like the OP's dd likes making her lunch - and maybe she's more likely to eat it if it's something she's chosen and made herself - and emptying and wiping her lunchbag isn't a terribly onerous task. Emptying the dishwasher is a bigger job, and not one that my dses did until they were older, but if it works for the OP and for her dd, then that's fair enough - as is putting on the occasional load of washing (not every load, or even half the loads, but once or twice a week, maybe). I remember how much I loved being allowed to use the proper soap powder to wash my dolls' clothes, and might have enjoyed doing more, if mum had let me.

I do also think it is a good idea for children to help with household tasks - the boys have been helping sort out the ironing from the non-ironing, and then sorting the non ironing and folding it, for years. They take turns to empty the dishwasher, and to be responsible for cleaning their bathroom and for emptying the bins and the recycling, and putting the wheelie bins out for the bin men. Doing this is partly about earning pocket money.

We didn't start them doing these tasks as early as the OP has with her dd, but she knows her dd better than we all do, and if she's happy doing the jobs and it's not a burden to her, then I don't see a big problem.

As our boys have grown up, we've let them do more in the kitchen, and now they are all capable of getting themselves a basic meal - pasta with tuna mayo, or marmite pasta with a poached egg, spaghetti bolognese etc, and I am teaching them the basics of cookery - how to chop an onion, what recipe terms actually mean - so they can feed themselves when they leave home. They also know how to use the washing machine, so hopefully they will stay clean.

When my father went to teacher training college, one of his fellow students was a welsh lad whose mum had done literally everything for him - told him when to change his socks/shirt/undies etc, when to have a bath - and he had no idea at all how to care for himself. In the end, alerted by the smell, Dad and his friends questioned this chap and found out he hadn't bathed or changed his clothes since starting at college - and they had to educate him on how to care for his own hygiene needs - they made him a chart to follow, so he could see when he needed a bath or a wash, and when to put on a clean shirt etc.

Yellowstone · 30/03/2011 10:20

There's been quite a lot of reference to the fact that children need to learn step by step early to become responsible adults.

My point is simply that I left integrating the childrens' help for quite a long while and it hasn't caused any discernible problem. They did other stuff when were little and now they help either voluntarily or when I ask.

StayingDavidTennantsGirl · 30/03/2011 10:20

I meant to say that I don't think it is a bad thing to teach children that there's a lot of work that goes into running a family and a house, and to ask them to help with that - they are part of the family too. But it should be appropriate to their age and abilities, of course.

I also remember, as a child, enjoying playing at household tasks and then finding that doing them for real was more fun, because there was a real outcome - actual food that the family could all share and then compliment me on, or a shiny bathroom that I'd made shine.

TheSecondComing · 30/03/2011 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

scaryfairy28 · 30/03/2011 10:31

I'd say if she enjoys it and does it along with you then its fine. Spending time together doing it is probably more benificial than you doing it for her with her in the other room watching tv. As well if it means she's eating it all she's obviously pleased to be doing it.

MissVerinder · 30/03/2011 10:53

I agree. With the sandwiches, at 2.8yo I get DD to help me with lunch etc if it's simple. She also has a water spray and her very own cleaning cloth to "clean" the windows (she asked for this), and enjoys doing the odd bit of hoovering. She also likes putting the washing powder/fabric conditioner in the machine.
More often than not she'll ask if she can join in, I never ask her!

Yellowstone · 30/03/2011 11:05

MissVerinder that's helping as a form of play, very different indeed.

loonyrationalist · 30/03/2011 11:05

IMO it is hard to let small children help - it takes longer & you need bundles of patience to let them do it themselves. HOWEVER it is invaluable to them - the feel that they can do things and they have your attention & praise. My dd1 (4.5) helps with many tasks around the home, washing, loading unloading the dishwasher, cleaning windows, setting the table, cooking & tidying up. It teaches her useful skills & also gets her to practice following instructions. I never make her help, but often ask her if she would like to. I am certain she would like to make her own packed lunch for pre-school - DH makes his & DD1's at the moment. DD2 (just 2) also tries her best to get involved in many of these tasks (involves even more patience on my behalf than when DD1 does it!)

OP as long as your DD1 is happy doing these tasks (& IMO at this age if she doesn't want to on occasion you should do it for her with no complaints or recriminations) then YANBU & you are also NBU for getting her involved with more tasks too but you must be prepared to be patient & let the younger children help too.

Quenelle · 30/03/2011 11:13

We ask DS 21mo to help put his toys away, take things out to Daddy in kitchen, help set the table because it's a good start to learning life skills, and also because he loves being involved. I think in a small way it helps their self esteem to feel like a useful member of the family who contributes to family life as much as the adults do.

My friend's 5 year old DD still waits for Mummy or Daddy to pick her up out of bed in the morning and carry her downstairs. She still refuses to dress herself and, rather than being given a treat when she has earned it, simply demands 'I want a special treat' and gets it.

She's actually a sweet little girl but I can see her ending up a bit of a madam if allowed to carry on.

knittedbreast · 30/03/2011 11:20

as long as you are not forcing her too, and she isnt obviously very unhappy about it i dont see s problem. my 5 and 2 year old love herlping me wash up and cook and dry dishes. i will always encourage them to help out so it becomes the norm

Tinuviel · 30/03/2011 12:58

Don't see a problem with preparing her lunch or emptying the dishwasher. I think doing the washing might be a bit of a challenge but once the load is downstairs she might enjoy loading/switching on. My 3 have always done 'chores', starting with setting/clearing the table once they could reach it! They then progressed onto washing/drying up.

I don't see how putting dirty clothes in the wash basket; hanging coats up; putting shoes away are chores myself. Surely that's just not living like a pig! We made sure we had pegs they could reach for coats and bags and a shoe rack for shoes near it. They get undressed in the bathroom right next to the washing basket, so not really a 'chore' involved there! We have a 'divided' wash basket so that teaches them to sort clothes as they put them in.

At 13, 11 and 9, they now do all washing/drying up; setting/clearing table; cleaning out their guinea pigs; feeding cats/guinea pigs; DS1 cooks one night a week and DS2 cooks one night with help/supervision; DD helps prep veg/stir pans etc. They also sort lunch out some days. DS1 has recently started doing some ironing - just his t-shirts. They will load/set off the washing machine if asked but DH or I tend to unload/hang out/put on dryer.

To be fair we home educate so they are around a lot more but some of those things I would expect even if they were in school.

If they are small, it's usually fun, they enjoy doing it and by the time they are older, it's just part of life and they do it automatically.

Animation · 30/03/2011 13:02

"Surely that's just not living like a pig!"

Blimey Tinuviel - would you say that to a 4 year old?

OnEdge · 30/03/2011 13:29

Thank you for your thoughtful responses, i really appreciate the feedback.

Appart from Fabbychic Get off your lazy backside and do it for her" You really are vile.

I'd like to just respond about the washing. I don't want my DD to do all the household's washing and hang kingsized sheets on the line. I didn't make myself clear. I want to teach her/involve her/enable her to do a whole cycle of washing from start to finish. So she sees how it goes from being chucked on the bathroom floor to magically appearing ironed hanging up in the wardrobe. Then she will appreciate what happens to it. I don't intend to make her do all the family's washing everyday.

As for pulling their weight, I again didn't make it clear. I am thinking more of the next 25 years ahead. If I can begin making it part of their day to muck in and look after each other now, then as they get older it will be just normal and not a big deal. I also want them to respect Me and DH and appreciate what hard work goes into it all.

I have a son 18m and a daughter 7 m, I intend to treat them all the same.
My DH was taught to look after himself and cooks lovely meals, and irons all his own clothes. I wasn't born to please men. We work as a team and respect each other I'd say.

I don't really see it as the kids doing my work for me. I see it more as them learning how to cope with and have an understanding of what skills are required to get through the day without expecting someone else to do it for them.

I have taken on board the warnings about DD being the eldest and having too much responsibility. I try and counteract this by giving her little priviledges that go with being the eldest such as sitting in the front seat and coming shopping with me which she loves.

If anything, I am even more sure now that I am doing the right thing, thanks MNers Smile

OP posts:
Ephiny · 30/03/2011 13:42

I don't think it's 'lazy' to get children to start learning to do household tasks - quite the opposite in fact. Often it takes much longer and produces more mess and requires you to do the thing 'properly' after they've got it wrong, it can be much easier and you might say 'lazier' sometimes to just do it yourself! But it's in their interests in the long term to learn how to do things, and it's nice for them to feel they have some 'useful' little tasks to do and be having fun and interacting with their parents while they do it. Children don't know these things are 'supposed' to be drudgery!

It's up to the parents what age you start doing these things, obviously, and 4 is probably younger than most would. But if she's happy doing it, and not getting too tired or stressed by it, then I don't see a problem.

OnEdge · 30/03/2011 13:51

I would say we spend 10 minutes on the lunch (twice a week), 10 minutes on the clothes and 10 minutes on the dishwasher. But this is in segments throughout the day as the tasks arise, not all at once.

I have a lady who helps me for 5 hours a week which includes putting some of the washing away so it would be much easier to leave it.

OP posts:
BsshBossh · 30/03/2011 13:57

OnEdge, I've really enjoyed reading your posts on this thread. I truly think you're doing fine. You don't sound like you'll overburden your DD with "chores" Smile. In the meantime, your DD and her siblings will be learning vital life skills and hopefully they'll be happy that they are participating in a productive family life. I don't for any second doubt you are not allowing them to "be children".

JemimaMop · 30/03/2011 13:59

I would agree with the other posters who have said make sure you don't just expect the eldest to help out. I had 3 under 4 too (they are now just turned 5, almost 7 and 8.5). The eldest did tend to be my little helper, but I have made sure that all three of them realise they are expected to help out.

I was thinking last night actually how nicely they have grown into helping. DH and I work till 5/5.30 and the DC are in after school childcare. When we get in everyone automatically chips in with getting supper ready, DS1 makes a salad and the drinks, DS2 sets the table and DD helps to get things out of the fridge etc. Then afterwards they help to clear the table and DS1 often helps to wash up. It is really nice that they all chip in instead of lounging on the sofa and leaving it all to me and DH!

IQuiteLikeVodka · 30/03/2011 13:59

My 13 year old son(wish I had started teaching him to be more independent at a young age) asked if we could have takeaway burgers for tea a few weeks ago so I said yes, 'if you make the call to the takeaway and arrange delivery (encouraging him to do these kinds of things to build up his confidence).Anyway I gave him the number and he made the call,asking for chicken burgers..he then looked really confused and whispered to me that they didn't have any so I said..'well just ask for chicken and chips then'. He did so but looked confused again, eventually I snatched the phone off him (impatient cow that I am) and asked other end what the hell the problem was,they replied that they were the taxi company therefore didn't do chicken (in any form)...oops,my son told me afterwards that they had said to him 'are you trying to be funny?'at one point..poor lad haha we did have a good laugh about it though and next time,he will check the number I give him before dialling,I'm sure.
Anyway,my point is,I do wish I had been more persistent when both my boys were younger because now I have to ask them over and over again to do simple things like making their beds,tidying their room,etc. I think my 13 yr old has washed up twice in his life (!) I just can't be bothered to get him to do it as I have to do it all over again anyway...eek I know,I know....