Making a 4 year old prepare her own packed lunches ?

[OnEdge]

I have recently began making her pack her own lunches the night before pre school, put the bag in the fridge, carry it the next day and then when she gets home, she empties it, washes the bag out and puts it away.

I just mentioned this on facebook to my friend who was moaning about having to do all the lunches. She seemed a bit shocked that I make her do it.

Am I expecting too much from her? She also empties the dishwasher every day and puts some clothes away into the wardrobe.

I thought that if she was old enough to be able to do it then she ought to do it for herself. I do use it as a chance to discuss nutrition. As she chooses stuff to go in it, we talk about why it is healthy or not. (that sounds a bit smug but I'm really not normally) I have noticed that since she has started doing it herself it comes home empty too.

OnEdge, it works for you and your family. That's all that matters.

Yes. Just don't want her to loose a bit of her childhood through it.

She's not going to lose her childhood. 5 minutes helping you out leaves her lots of time! Go with what you do and what works.

I think it's too much. Carrying it yes....making it and cleaning the bag? No.

At 4 you have to bear in mind their size and how tired they are after school....washing and hanging clothes? No way.

You can't compare wirldlife programmes with real life. I mean lions eat live deer! Your child is nothing like an animal. We teach them skills which fit in with our far more complex lifestyle....school alone is a massive undertaking.

I think at 4 then helping you as YOU do things is more than enough.

'But why should I be doing chores for people who are quite capable of doing it themselves ? I don't see it as my role in family life to do everything for other people'

I don't think your children are just 'other people'. You have a responsibility to them greater than to anyone else becuase you made them. You shouldn't be doing everything for your DH, mum, cousin or brother, but these are your kids.

I think as a parent, it is sometimes your role to do the boring jobs so your kids can enjoy themselves.

Having said that, I agree that it's great to teach them a sense of independence and that you shouldn't be waiting on them all the time. As long as there's a balance I think. You may also find that you have to reduce what she's doing to help around the house as she gets older, rather than increasing it, because she'll have her own things to do e.g. homework, piano practice etc.

In contrast to other posters, I agree in principle with what you are trying to achieve. I think often, if you don't start young, then these things become difficult to enforce later on when children expect you to do everything for them.

Therefore, my DDs do chores and earn pocket money as a result. My youngest DD is 4, and I would expect her to do some chores eg putting her clothes in the washing basket, taking empty plate out after a meal, helping to tidy bedroom, laying out her clothes before she goes to bed, helping to dust etc etc. However, I wouldn't expect her to stack the dishwasher or to pack own lunch as yet, simply because it would cause too many arguments. But in principle, I agree with you. Too many children turn into teenagers with a sense of entitlement and expect you to just wait on them, in my book.

My 7 year old helps to load a washing machine btw, but I wouldn't expect my 4 year old to do that for a few years yet.

Sounds like the chores I was expected to do as a child of a similar age, and I never objected (I had the choice of school dinners if I decided I didn't want to make a packed lunch any more - although that had to be decided a term in advance).

My partner is horrified that I might make our ds make his own lunch, doubly when he realised I meant from primary school age, but I think it's good. I've been able to cook dinner for the family since about 7 or 8 (of the fish-fingers and rice kind), and I was proud of that. It's not stealing her childhood or over-working her, it's giving her independence and choice.

I have noticed that other people's kids will do things like hand me an empty wrapper. I don't take it but tell them to go and put it in the bin. This attitude kids have towards their mothers is what I think is wrong, and I suppose what I am trying to avoid.

Points taken though on the fine line thing. My DD does have Princess tendencies if she is left to get away with it. I might be over reacting.

Chunkypickle Not your partner personally, but they are horrified that you intend to get your DS preparing his own food, yet is happy to stand by and watch you do it. My DH is the same.

I think I am a Feminist.

Sorry to be multi posting here. My mate's car was a right banger and on several occasions I have helped her by changing a wheel and jump starting it. She was amazed that I just knew what to do. I was thankful that my Dad involved me in in every day tasks as they came along.

This is ridiculous- you're not sending her up a chimney or getting her to repaint the entire house whilst abseiling from the roof!

Most kids don't mind having jobs around the house eg my three year old goes outside and brings the paper inside in the morning. To be honest, it would be quicker and easier for me to do it myself but he likes having a special job to do in the morning.

When I let my oldest son- age 5- pack his own school lunch he really enjoys the autonomy of it. I'm a bit of a control freak though so like to do it myself.

As long as you make sure you are praising her for the task and she is not resentful at doing it, it's fine.

And the reality is that in a large family, the kids have to muck in more than in smaller families. It shouldn't be a big deal. Kids can have little chores and still be kids.

I think that is fine. I make the actual sandwiches here but DS1 gets all the bits out and gets it out of the fridge himself and puts the lunchbox in the dishwasher if it needs it.

One of his jobs is to also empty the dishwasher (leaving the sharp knives and the big plates [too high] for DH).

I expect both DH and DS to do things like put their plates in the kitchen and either empty the dishwasher then put their plates in there, or if it is full turn it on.

DS1 is almost 7 now and perfectly capable of getting himself a sandwich or whatever, things like the washing always going in the washing basket and helping put stuff away etc.

He is given $5 a week to put into his new bank account and also $1 each day for the canteen, on the understanding that he does chores around the house as and when he is asked, these chores don't include things like keeping his room tidy and putting his clothes away, more like hanging out the towels stuff like that.

It isn't too bad being him I think. He doesn't moan, but that could be because he knows it is pointless.

You chose to have the number of children you have, in the space of time you had them. Why should the oldest therefore pick up whatever slack there is because of a situation you (and another adult) created?

The number of children you have or their ages is immaterial. The question is whether a child aged 4 should be doing things for the rest of the family or just things for herself like getting herself a drink or putting up her own coat, putting away her own shoes, preparing her own lunch. I have my own DCs doing that kind of thing. But even I would draw a line at loading the washing machine or the dishwasher emptying. If you can't get around to this kind of stuff yourself without ending up exhausted, it's time to hire someone (yes, pay them) to take care of the drudgery.

Yes, I agree with math. I agree with you, OP, that if she can do things for herself she should. My two year old carries her own plate out and helps me unload the dishwasher, but she's helping me, not doing it on her own. Likewise, I'm teaching her to cook, and I've shown her how to hang laundry out. I think it's entirely possible to equip your children with those life skills very early, without expecting too much, and the key is your participation.

But dishwasher and washing machine - that feels like crossing a line, because she's not just taking care of personal tasks, but actually doing quite big tasks that are for the family. There's a reason that the threads about "I am a SAHM, should I make my DH's lunch/do his ironing" always come up; those are personal care tasks, not part of running the household, so people divide as to who should do them.

So the making lunch thing is fine, especially because you discuss the choices as you go, and washing out the bag is okay, but I find the image of a four year old doing a huge load of washing on her own terribly sad, for some reason. It reminds me of those Quiverfull families where the eldest daughter (always a daughter) ends up being a second mother/housekeeper from a really young age and feeling like they don't get a childhood. I have a close friend who is one of thirteen, who absolutely feels like that.

The lunch is ok, unloading the dishwasher, well, I'd prefer dh or myself did it rather than a child. I used to let my son wash all the plastics, he loved doing dishes at age 4. My cousin had the kids wash and dry and put away as many dishes as years of age they were. So a 5 year old washed 5, a 10 year old washed 10. I am all for the family helping out, working as a team, but for some reason the unloading of a dishwasher seems a lot of work. However, I hate unloading the dishwasher, so maybe I am prejudiced.

There was a great article on the Freerangekids website recently which basically was talking about this. It basically said that every time you do something for your child that they can learn to do themselves you are stealing an opportunity for them to develop their own capabilities and independence.
It was far more eloquent than this post thank goodness!
Anyway, YANBU, you are helping her by not helping her!

I think you are teaching your dd great life skills.

Ignore anyone who says kids should do nothing apartmfrom play they will be the ones burdened with 21 year olds who can't boil an egg...

I make my 3 year old do lots too and she likes it. I think they enjoy the responsibility it gives them confidence in thier own abilities.

Here it is freerangekids.wordpress.com/2011/02/26/stealing-from-kids/

I don't think that YABU. How long could those tasks take? If you expected her to do hours and hours or chores then certainly that would be a problem, but these seem like little things.

I work at a school (the children I'm with right now are 7/8) and the teacher and I were just commenting the other day on how helpless they are. They have no independence, I swear. And then you see why when their mums come in, hanging up their coats for them, etc.

As long as it doesn't get out of hand, like those Quiverfull famililes tortoise mentioned, good for you I say.

My 4 year old loves emptying the dishwasher. She puts all the cutlery away then hands me plates, glasses and cups which are too high for her to reach. Lots of times when I am feeling lazy she says lets do it together and its done in double time... Good for me and for her to learn helping makes jobs go quicker.

When I hang out the washing she hands me the clothes and pegs. She helps tidy up and dust, would love to hoover but I just got myself the miele dog and cat hoover and noone is allowed to touch it but me

Anything that gets them helping is good, and it will be better for them in the long run.

Does she enjoy it or are you making her do it whether she wants to or not?
I agree that children should be encouraged to be independent, carry their own stuff and manage age-appropriate tasks.
Many parents, usually mothers, seem to find this hard, as if it is a reflection of the quality of their love as to how much personal service they offer their children. Sensible involvement of a child in mundane tasks helps them develop essential skills and awareness.

YANBU. I admit i was a bit taken aback when I reads the title as it sounds as if she is left totally to do it which may be why your friend made the comment.

But when I read what you actually do I think it is fine. I had visions of you lying in bed while your daughter stuffed handfuls of biscuits into her pockets for her packed lunch!

At this age they enjoy doing chores and it is good to build u independence gradually in this way.

Completely unreasonable. Carry on as you are and if you are lucky she'll be ready to go into service by the time she's twelve and you'll have one less on your hands. My MIL by the way still l harbours resentment because she was the eldest of five and spent her childhood doing chores and childcare. You chose to have lots of children quickly, you need to look after them and do the menial jobs. let the poor infant have a childhood and give her a break.