To think that parents should look after their own kids

[Flower1000]

Ok I'm probably going to get flamed for this one but I'm interested to see if it is just me being a grumpy cow or maybe it's a generation thing.

Ok so here goes. I have one daughter and have to work full time to pay bills etc etc as does my DH, so she goes to a childminder. Because I don't stay at home with her I make a point of ensuring I'm around for the rest of the time. I's a very rare occasion that myself and my husband go out without her, as I feel it's not fair as she doesn't see us during the week day. We don't have a regular 'date night', our parents don't look after her so we can have some 'us' time and I think we've only left her overnight once with her grandparents and this was unavoidable. My thinking on this is, we wanted her, so we have responsibility for her and everything that comes with having kids.

I feel that if you have kids you also have to be prepared to look after them, this means giving up stuff you did before you had them.

So many of my friends also work full time but are more than happy to let 'grandma' look after their DD every other weekend, and/or once or twice during the week. Some close friends go to work, pick up the DD then drop her off at grannies and go to the gym. Some also have a week or two week holiday once a year without their kids!!! I couldn't bear to be without my DD for that long let alone go on holiday, it strikes me as being VERY selfish! I have to ask, why bother having kids if this is the way you treat them??

So am I being a grumpy old git (i'm 38 btw ) :)

you know, i sort of do this in my head - look at people who spend less time with their kids than i do to help feel that my lifestyle is not so worthy of judging.
I work full time (we have a nanny), but have only once been away overnight without my kids (10th wedding anniversary) in 7 years and have never (apart from that one time) had daytime childcare at the weekend. Nor do we use holiday clubs by choice (I confess we have twice been to hotels that happen to have had kids clubs, and the DC chose to spend and hour or two there a couple of times while we were there). I don't though have a problem with evening babysitting after the kids are in bed.

I know many people would look at the hours I work and judge me. I am fully comfortable with my choices though, so do not have a problem with that. And the idea that I should not have had my DC if I was going to work is laughable - I love spending time with them and we are close. they seem to be happy and really enjoy their lives (and they love their nanny and feel lucky that they have an "extra" grown up who cares for them).

On the other hand, I do have a friend who works full time and also has a nanny most Saturdays for at least part of the day. Her and her DH often go away for weekends leaving the DC with their grandparents. When they holiday as a family they will always stay in hotels with kids clubs (although don't use them the whole time). I must admit that I like the fact that I (when I am judged) can think of someone who is more worthy of judging in this regard than me. She in turn the other day was telling me about someone who went back to work after 6 weeks and who always takes their nanny on holiday. So she also clearly liked the fact that she had someone on to whom she could mentally deflect the attention when she feels she is being judged.

I do not judge these people who are more "extreme". But I am sort of glad from my own perspective that they exist (in an attention-deflecting type way).

I would still like to know why this affects the OP strongly enough that she says it "annoys" her and that she feels she is being held "to ransom" for wanting to spend time with her child.

If something annoys you then the reality is that it must be affecting you in some way, either directly (preventing you doing something you want to do for example) or emotionally (making you feel resentful about your own life, upsetting you because you are seeing children upset etc).

Something that has absolutely no impact upon you does not annoy you. so I am really curious what the impact is on the OP that has made her feel this strongly about this issue. Is timetomove right about it?

We have some family who have developed a finely honed skill in not looking after their own children at any possible opportunity. I find it weird and I think they are taking the piss, but it doesn't annoy me because it has absolutely no impact on my life.

theinet that sounds a bit :( but you can't really be sure, could be toddler tantrums

I agree with the majority of posters, OP YAB mainly U, unless you are talking about extreme cases where children are left in an envirnment or in company they don't enjoy. I also agree long holidays without childern may be a bit controversial but hey - who are we to judge?

I have the same problem with my DH, Lequeen.

He works long hours and is often away, so when he is around he feels he needs to spend every second with the DC.

I insist we do things together as a couple, which I know he feels guilty about.

Also, I try to gte him to do some things for himself...sport etc but he adamantly refuses, saying he can't spare the time.

I do worry about him. Not much of a life. Though he says he's fine.

You're not a grumpy old git OP, you're just a self-involved judgemental twat with the social skills of a pancake.

I agree. I don't think it would hurt at all if he went for a cycle ride or a game of tennis or a meal with the boys.

And I think he would be a happier bunny.

I guess though, it's hard to get over guilt.

I don't suffer from guilt, partly because I have no soul and partly because I see far more of my children than is polite or necessary.

hell yeah. If DH suggested giving up his favourite things, I'd fight him tooth and nail. Not least because I am looking forward to long hours where he entertains the kids as he teaches them how to play music etc.

When my son was 1 year old I was diagnosed with cancer. I spend every second I can with him and resent any time I am not with him - for fairly obvious reasons.

I don't think YAB particularly U - although what other people do with their kids is their own business.

There have always been people who will do their utmost to avoid spending time with their kids. My ex was dumped into boarding school aged 6 and even at holiday time his parents fucked off and did their own thing. Needless to say he is now a huge casualty of a man who has no concept of how to function in relationships or family life in general.

Oh lubberlich hope you get well, all the best to you
for your ex-h
I don't thik OP was about such unfortunate circumstances though...

lubb me too but i also learned as time passed that i wanted to have some fun too,just in case you know,hope you are well and stay that way

A lot also depends on the individual child, and the nature of an individual's extended family etc. Some grandparents are godsends and amazing with children & frankly you'd be denying your child a real opportunity if you didn't allow them to spend time together. I have friends whose kids disapear every summer to spain or france with their grandparents, learning the language and having a wonderful time for 6- 8 weeks. My son & sister have an amazing bond, and in the past both have begged for a weekend together. Other Grandparents don't want to be burdened, or don't have the health etc to spend extended time with the kids.

Some children thrive on a range of caregivers and really benefit from the village approach to child rearing, others may be more introverted & NEED just one or two adults to give them focused attention. My own mother often comments on how different the needs of my own siblings were in this regard, and that's within the same home, I suspect it's the same for many others.

Right now I can't work as my sen kid really needs his Mum's attention at this moment in time. I don't resent others though as people's personalities and circumstances vary so much. It's all about focusing on doing the best we can for our own kids and respecting others enough to trust they are doing the same with their children.

Flower, you have your kids looked after some of the time for your reasons, others have theirs looked after some of the time for their reasons. This competitive counting up the hours/ comparing how valid the reasons are stinks and is one of the things that makes parenting unnecessarily difficult. You're basically saying your reasons are better than someone else's. Watch out.

By the way, I don't need to know that you work 'to pay the bills'. You seem to say that because you don't want to be judged for working. I work because I get fulfilment from it and I don't want to lose my career and be a SAHM. There, I've said it - judge me! No man would ever think to give a reason why he's still working full time after having kids.

Haven't read whole thread so sorry if I cover points already raised:
YABU to judge others on their choices
YANBU on the point about holidays I can't understand anyone who can be away from their DC for 1-2 weeks to lie on a beach etc IMO a long weekend at most.

Also I think the age of kids has to be accounted for ie a baby or v. Young toddler shouldn't be away from parents too often but 3yrs plus probably prefer staying with GPs or aunts etc I know I always did.

For holidays if your child Is 15yo and has said they don't want to go on hols with u then it's fine but young children should go with you.

I also work full time I can't afford not to I'm lucky that my employer let's me condense my hours over 3.5days and GP look after DS when I work.

When DH and I want to go out we put DS to bed at 7.30pm and GP babysit while we go out (usually just to cinema) we come home MIL leaves DS is none the wiser as we were there when he went to bed and we're there when he wakes.

Is this not an option. It is important to enjoy urself as well happy parents make happy kids!

brainsurgeon & ledkr

Thank you.

EdwardorEric...hypocritical much? "YABU for judging, OP, but hold while I join you with a YANBU...proceeds to judge"

make your mind up.

I say, you look after your daughter how you see fit & let other look after their children how they see fit.

None of your business what others do really.

And you know, isn't spending every waking moment of her life with her a little OTT?

She doesn't need you there all the time to know you love her. I suggest you get some 'me' time, get some 'us' time & stop worrying about everyone else, because honestly? It sounds like you are a little envious of parents who have some time to themselves.

Your LO won't be harmed by you & your dh having a meal together, alone now & then!

GeekCool has a good point. It's not about us wanting 'me' time. It's about DS and the relationship he has with his Grandparents

Your daughter need the opportunity to build a relationship with others too. She is entitled to that.

What will you do when she is at school & wants to go to friend's for play dates? refuse because it is 'your' time with her?

I have to say, that you are building her a very secluded little world where she is totally reliant on you. But perhaps you like that idea?

It will only damage her relationship with others in the long run though.

Wordfactory are you, in fact, married to my DH?

He never wants to do couple things because he doesn't like to leave DS. I've tried to get him to join book clubs, sports teams, etc, etc, and he won't do it. Drives me mad!

SGB said it all on the first page: why worry about other people's choices?

Ime those choices are usually dictated by specific circumstances anyway, meaning that something that would be bad for family A is exactly what family B needs.

My brother works abroad for long stretches of time. He can't bear to be away from his son for a moment when he is at home, and he also finds it absolutely unthinkable to ever hint at being tired or bored or irritated by his son: the little time they have together is so precious it must not be wasted.

My other brother has been a SAHD and running his firm from home since the children were little: he is very happy to leave his sons with GPs and cheerfully admits that he sometimes needs a break: he and his sons simply don't have that desperate feeling that their time together is short. His sons have no feeling of being dumped; they love spending time with their GPs and are always trotting round to their flat.

Dd and I have been spending rather more time together than most mothers and daughters due to her chronic health condition. We love each other dearly but are also aware that sometimes our greatest need is to have a break from one another.

cheerfulyank perhaps we have the same guy? A polywotsit...now that would be a turn up lol.

cory your brothers sound like me and DH. He wants to spend all free time with DC, precisely because there's not much of it. I'm more than happy to palm them off on any passing starnger

I would love that we were close enough (geographically) for my boys to have that kind of relationship with their grandparents, the way my sisters kids do. Not at all about me and dh getting 'time off' (we have friends who can/will babysit if dh & I want to go out together, although it's not that regular an occurance atm), but about my sons developing a relationship with people who mean a great deal to me.

Mind you, I'm a sahm to my boys, so by your judgment op I guess I'm eligible to have evenings off guilt free?

I do think a case has to be made for respect to grandparents in this, too.

SIL wanted MIL to take a few days off to mind her kids so she could go to a wedding abroad. MIL said: "oh I'll have to check with work" (she is under pressure at the moment with staff being let go due to the recession etc) and SIL said: "well, if they won't let you have the time off, tell them to stuff their job - you don't need it anyway". MIL said something about how she really enjoyed working there and found the money a help etc and SIL then said she had booked the flights and had "no other options" so her mother would have to take the time off! Does SIL give MIL any financial support when she heads off, having expected her mother to take holidays/unpaid help? No.

I think whether it's U or not to leave your kids with gp's depends on the individual circumstances, too. SIL's children are very feisty kids and are used to being given choice about everything e.g. a choice of dinners, a choice of underwear, a choice of clothes, a choice of the day's "activities" etc. GP's don't subscribe to this view so they often have bad behaviour while SIL is away - some of it can be really quite shocking. As GP's are (really) unable to cope, the kids end up being threatened endlessly with the wooden spoon, put in the "naughty toilet" (dark downstairs toilet, no light on) and shouted at. After a day or two of the new "rules" (no whacking your sister, eat what you're given, wear what you're told, do what you're told), they generally seem to enjoy their time at the GP's but act up massively when SIL returns. This makes being around the house when SIL is there with the kids extremely difficult as it tends to be one long screaming match. SIL actually doesn't stay in the house at nights when the kids are there which also adds to it - and MIL talks to us about how she finds it hard but says nothing to SIL. It has also created difficulties in the wider family as SIL's kids are about a lot and when other GC's come to stay more occasionally, they don't really get a look in with all the "discipline" going on all the time.

In this instance, I do wear a bit of a judgey pants. I think, as an arrangement, it's clearly not working and it's unfair to put grandparents in a position where they have to be "bad cop" with the kids all the time because the parenting styles differ. My ds is only a toddler but though I can see the GP's love SIL's girls to bits, I don't really like how harsh they are or how behaviour is dealt with. In our case, and in this circumstance, it would be massively U of us to do the same as SIL and use MIL for childcare. Get a babysitter!