to think my parents are selfish ****'s?

[jinglebelly]

sorry for typos, nursing at keyboard! Anyway, my parents (divorced) both live close to us, my mum doesn't work and is fit and healthy - my dad works but spends all his free time doing self absorbed new age workshops. DH and i have 3 dc's from 4 months to 5 years. It was our decision to have 3 children and i'm not trying to shirk my responsibilities but DH and i haven't even been out for as much as a meal together for over a year. my mum will come over on a sunday if we cook her a roast, arriving 10 mins before we eat and leaving half an hour after we finish, this is the only time my dc's see her. my dad is just as bad and just so utterly self absorbed. our dc's are going to have no memories of their gp's at all , they never offer to do anything with them... Aibu to think they are selfish?

I would love to have a relationship with my grandchildren. Unfortunately my dd got the hump because I did not want to give up work to provide childcare for her to go back to work fulltime. Since then she will not allow my GC to visit me and has made it clear she does not want me in her children's lives. Her words were, "GP's should want to care for their GC and should give up work in order to do so. GP's should make sure their GC want for nothing".

For three years I have not received a birthday or Christmas card from dd or my GC. If I call at their home she shouts at me to "Fuck off". Whenever I have phoned she slams the phone down on me.

She is too immature to realise she is denying her own children a loving relationship with their GP's.

worraliberty - don't you have an answer to my question?

Yes. I also have a life away from MN so I don't automatically reply sometimes.

I feel you are judging them because your 'parraleticly' drunk could be totally different to someone else's.

Please define parraletic.

Even your OP comes across as judgemental about what your Dad does in his own free time...so as I say, perhaps they don't want to be around you as they sense your attitude towards them.

I know. I have been perfectly polite to her.
But to be honest she chose to post in aibu rather than relationships and ultimately everyone gives their point of view.
Tbh it is just that disagreeing is one thing but being about others is just a wee bit pious.

But then what do I knowv

I'm so sorry you find yourself in that position, lookatthetime. My exDIL has threatened that we'll never see our dgs again a couple of times but she's backed down pretty fast both times, because she likes the time off.

Don't worry I'm not offended at all, it's nice to see the different opinions even if I strongly disagree with some of them

worraliberty - so I am being judgemental because my definition of paralytically drunk could be different to someone elses, are you joking ?

No I'm not joking. It's a judement as you can't define the word.

Really though there's not much you can do about this whole situation except suck it up and get on and enjoy your own children.

It is upsetting when gps aren't interested in your dcs.

But, I don't get the attitude that if they don't take an interest you are entitled to cut them out of your life and refuse to look after them in old age. Does it count for nothing that they looked after you? Probably made the same sacrifices and had the same struggles? Surely you owe something to your parents for that - unless they were always truly awful parents.

OP YANBU.

I think that the grandparents should take some interest in their grandchildren rather then thinking that I've done my time. If that is their attitude why have children?

I'm not saying that grandparents should be expected to put their lives on hold, but surely they should spend SOME time with them.

Worraliberty: you seem to be hung up on a certain phrase that the OP has said. She has stated a fact, not been judgemental.

I have 0ver 20 grandchildren and great grandchildren (DD married an older guy who had grown up kids who have children(still classed as my greatgrankids )) anyway I work 2 jobs so 5 days a week I work from 8:30 until after 6, get home cook tea, clean etc etc and usually knackered by 8.
My dh works full time including every other week he works after hours on call out so has to be available to police calls all night so cannot go anywhere that week.He also works every other weekend on call outs. So this means we actually only get 2 full days a fortnight with quality time for each other and we try to get away in the mobile home. Sometimes we have taken a GC with us.But not everytime.

I have a lovely relationship with all my grandkids, because my kids bring thier kids to visit us. They have more time and appreciate the importance of "family time"
Sometimes I have a housefull sometimes its not so busy but always always my door is open to them.No way could my dh and I find time to visit all the grankids fairly.
I certainly don't think its the amount of time spent with a gc, its the quality that matters
We both have hobbies, attend photography club, like camping and sailing all of which our children actively encourage. They get great pleasure in knowing we are not sat at home miserable and have active lives.
All of the things we do, we could and will and occassionally have involved our grandkids in IF they have shown a keen interest. But they are not forced to and we do not feel obligated to either.

Maybe those of you whose parents do not visit could visit parents and help esablish the relationship you desire your kids to have with their grandparents that way. (not making assumptions that people don't ) just saying what works for us.

It is upsetting when gps aren't interested in your dcs.

But, I don't get the attitude that if they don't take an interest you are entitled to cut them out of your life and refuse to look after them in old age

ERMMM

They wanted a life separate,they get one,without the help of a family.

Reap what you sow.

Stop inviting them over for Sunday roasts! Leave them to it and find a lovely babysitter. What about the other set of gp's?

My parents are the same, unfortunately. Some people just aren't interested in children, even their own grandchildren. There is nothing really you can do about it.

Do try and find a babysitter, though. It sounds like you need a night out.

OP, I think I'd be a bit less predictable with the Sunday lunch.

You could make a picnic and say to your mother that lunch is in the park today, or go to a cafe next to a soft-play area.

Just try changing the format of the lunchtime so that it is less about your mother running in and wolfing down the roast dinner that you resented cooking for her, and more about a couple of hours you can all spend together.

Would that work, or would she just not come at all if she wasn't getting her roast potatoes? :o

I'm disturbed by some of the 'revenge fantasy' thinking in this thread: 'it's their loss; they'll die alone and unloved; they've made their bed etc etc'.

In my (not inconsiderable) experience, the loneliest, most miserable old people in nursing homes are those who were closest to their GCs, who spent the most time with them when they were small and who were desperate to keep those family ties. Guess what? GCs are not naturally grateful.

Older people who take care to develop independence, to forge bonds and strong friendships outside of their immediate family - even self-absorbed hobbies and a taste for long boozy weekend lunches (or 'getting paralytic', if you prefer) - they're precisely the ones who DON'T die alone and unloved, desperately longing for a visit from some selfish grand-daughter who just wants granny to hurry up and die so she can have her cut of the proceeds to spend on tattoos and an iPad2.

Maybe they just aren't interested, which is sad but there is nothing you can do about it.

However, sometimes the expectations of what GP's do is different between the generations. I am in my 40's and none of my GP's ever "played" with me. As far as they were concerned. children went outside and played with other children. I really think they would have been surprised if anyone had openly criticised them for not playing with GC.

And from observation I don't think this attitude is peculiar to my GP's.

I also thought that you owed your parents help when they were old because of what they did for you when you were a child - not because what they were like as GP's.

I see your point YUsMilady.

I too find it strange that there's all this talk of 'They'll be sorry one day', and 'They are the ones who are missing out'

I guess if the grandparents felt they were missing out hugely, then they would be choosing to spend more time with the GCs - so the fact that they make other choices, suggests they are happy with their full lives. I still think in the OPs case, there's two sides to every story, and she ought to focus on the 'great' set of GPs (when they're not paralytic!) and as Slightly said, maybe vary the Sunday lunch invitiation. I'd be bored having the same routine every weekend, so maybe a bit of a change would be good for all. And she also needs to find a babysitter sharpish and get out more.

That's a very good post, YusMilady.

Like I say, I see it a lot (geriatric social work). Let's just say it's a mistake to put all your emotional eggs in your family basket...!

I don't think we automatically owe our parents care in their old age because they raised us when we were little.

I chose to have children. It is my responsibility to look after them and raise them well, and it is what I want to do, otherwise I wouldn't have had them. Children get no say in being born. I hope I will still have a close and loving relationship with my DC and DGC when I am old, but I don't consider that they owe me anything as payment for loving and looking after them.

I am sorry for your situation - my pil are constantly looking after the similar aged kids of my husbands brother - and they are always on sleepovers to allow them to have sleep and breaks and the gps see my dcs about once every month! It is the gps loss that they miss out on your kids but hang in there when they are a bit older they are easier to leave with non-family babysitters.

I think what we're actually seeing here is the generations de-coupling, if you like, with all the commensurate heartache, soul-searching and social change that brings.

It's not that this particular group of Baby Boomers people necessarily brought their children up single handed - they often took advantage of the extended family as well, as well as enjoying the benefits of a rapidly expanding post-war economy with good employment, pensions, reasonably well-resourced welfare state and so on. They were quite well placed, considering everything, which has freed them up for a long and enjoyable retirement (which indirectly the rest of us are paying for). In historical terms, this is highly unusual.

The subsequent generation has problems with long working hours, eroding salaries, high house prices, high childcare prices and pension insecurity, so will not have the spare resources, financial, time or emotional, to prop up their parents particularly well when they become infirm. That is the risk with de-coupling the generations and encouraging a position where every man (or nuclear family) is for themselves.

In terms of personal experience, I think my family refelects a fairly average position. We certainly were regularly dispatched to grandparents and so on, and my parents got a fair bit of time off, for example. They were also involved with their own grandparents, for example my mother went to her grandmother's every single day after school, and enjoyed doing that. However they seem to have removed themselves from the equation now and pursued their own interests instead of aligning themselves to family. This has the effect of fragmenting the remaining altruistic bonds instead of consolidating them.

It's a recipe for social decay, given that there will be no National Care Service to step in. So it's about more than individuals.

I also think lesley makes a very good point , that if you DO view this 'looking out for your parents in their old age' as a sort of tit for tat thing(which personally I find a rather distasteful thing to do, but IF you do) then surely its more logical to want to do this on the basis that they brought YOU up, and loved and cared for you. I don't see why grandparenting 'skills' are brought into the equation.

In other words, if your parents brought you up lovingly, surely you want to reciprocate that care when they are older? If they have been great parents , but are maybe hands-off grandparents simply because they have other things going on in their lives, it seems very churlish to want to 'pay them back'. If , on the other hand, they weren't good parents , then thats an entirely separate issue, and it would actually seem strange in that case to suddenly expect them to step up and be wonderful GPs. Which leads me to believe that most of these GPs who get criticised on MN have probably been perfectly good parents, otherwise why the surprise and disappointment that they aren't performing some sort of expected grandparent role?

So according to WorraLiberty if you use a word and you can't define it you are being judgmental per se . When did this rule come into force? And what does it mean if you want to argue about the meaning of a word you can't spell?

Paralytic just means pertaining to or characterised by paralysis - so paralytic drunk just means drinking until you are unable to move/function.

It's a description. So if the paternal GP's spend their time drinking until they can't move at the weekend, they enjoy getting paralytic drunk. No judgement implicit - but sensibly it would preclude them from spending time with GPs when they are paralytic if they are struggling to function due to being so drunk.

OP - YANBU - this isn't about babysitting, it is about your DCs having a relationship with their GPs. The Machiavellian side of me would be tempted to gush to each set of GPs about the other, if you think that would work. Only you know the people involved and whether this would motivate them to see the DCs more. Have you got memories of spending time with your own GPs to reminisce wistfully about to your mum and dad? I only had a relationship with my maternal GM (and my mum and her had a rocky relationship but she was also a good GM to me) but she was London Nana - Lord Mayor's show/Changing of the Guards/Royal Tournament. Are there things your parents like doing that that older DCs can do with them (just picturing a 5 year old at a self-help workshop....any other interests!?)? You might have to be creative. Also how about sending the GPs things the DC have drawn/written in the post, even if they don't live far, and encouraging GPs to post things to them too, so thy have something to talk about with DCs when they see them?

Would DC (5) go to the park with your mum for half an hour BEFORE dinner? If she turns up for dinner I would just say ooh you're early, dinner won't be ready for 30 mins - that's lucky DC (5) wanted to take you to the park.

Just trying to think of suggestions as to how to forge a closer relationship.

No you can't force them to have a relationship and yes, it would be nice of them to spontaneously want to but I think ultimately, the only person you can ever change is YOU so either you get proactive (and even then, might not work but you will have tried) or you accept now that they are just not interested.

My parents packed us off to boarding school at the ages of 9 and 11 respectively. They hardly came to see us and rarely wrote, which was remiss even by the standards of boarding school parents at the time, and I remember one or two of the other mothers and more maternal teachers noticing and taking pity on me and stepping in to help, plus the school used to phone them up and summon them on occasion, for parents' evenings and the like. I was a miserable teenager when they behaved like this and I was left feeling there was something wrong with me.

When we were smaller, I can barely remember my mother doing anything with us such as going to the park, taking us out, playing with us or whatever. She seemed to spend her whole time slumped in a chair or angrily cleaning the house. I remember her as a bitchy, negative woman. She has never once taken any of my (well-behaved, polite) kids out on her own, and when I invited her over after DC4 was born to spend a few days getting to know her grandson, she sat there while I ran around looking after her (on crutches!) and then moaned she wasn't getting a holiday. TBH I sometimes feel like I am the adult setting the example and she is the wilful teenager, as invariably it's me making the effort and her being egocentric and misreading the emotional signals or taking turns in the house.

When she's not here (she sees the kids 2 or 3 afternoons a year on average - we are not welcome at her house as we allegedly mess it up) she seems to hang out with other women who are alienated from or estranged from their children and she reports conversations where they apparently cackle about cleverly getting out of familial babysitting and the like. They have competitive cosmetic surgery and spend a lot of time shopping and travelling on SAGA holidays.

Is she happy? I don't think so. She's a discontented woman living life very superficially and probably deep down aware she is unfulfilled on some level. What a sad way to spend your life, and what a pity she made such impulsive choices. The even sadder thing is that I am sure if my dad was married to someone else, he would be round here every five minutes loving the whole grandparent thing, but she seems to have encouraged him to stay away and by her side instead.