To hope my sister is about to learn a really hard lesson?

[Sistertrouble]

where do I start.

Dsis was on her very last chance with her landlord and I think she has just blown it.
She rents the house she lives in but the council pay her rent and council tax.
Lets say my sister is not the cleanest person in the world, well her house is an absolute pigs sty, its dirty smelly, even flys have moved in.
The house has no order in it at all, clean and dirty clothes mixed together spread all over the house, kitchen draws hanging off, holes in the walls and doors,
Just a complete mess.
My parents and I are always bailing her out doing a deep clean, fixing things ect before her landlord does a check, but it never lasts, a few days later it's back to the way it was.
Her poor dcs have to live in that, they go to school in dirty clothes, they wear the same socks all week, their feet really smell, god knows why the school haven't said anything they must of noticed.
The beds never have any covers or pillow cases on, their bedrooms carpets all ripped up, the dcs have no boundaries and never told off when they're naught, my sister has no control at all.
I could go on and on but I won't bore you with it all, yesterday her landlord turned up out of the blue and of course the place was a tip, she came because neighbours made a complant about the state of the garden, the gate blew off, well so she says, but i know the kids climb up and down it.
The landlord has said she will be doing weekly checks from now on, she is going back next week.
The icing on the cake is her oh lives there and he works full time while she us claiming to be a single parent, the landlord knows this as she has been told by neighbors and has said she is going to tell the council what she knows.

Sorry this is long but aibu to hope he gets caught living there and landlord gives her notice for her to move out?

OP - if this wasn't your sister and these were two children living next door to you in such conditions what would you do?

It's not an easy situation. I cannot imagine how you and your family must feel.

iwaslikeyoursister - you should be very VERY proud.

agree with expat.

Let's not blame the op-she states her and her parents have helped but to no avail.

Well done for turning your life around iwasyoursister.

I'd call SS and ask for advice OP,what else can you do?

Poor kids. Will your mum have them with her? On a permanent basis if it comes to it?

I find it odd this thread is all about the mother even though there are two parents in that house

Government (social services) shouldn't have to pick up the mess left behind when able-bodied family won't help quite so often as it does. Social services shoud be the last resort if the family can't sort out minding a few bairns between themselves, (possibly this is a cultural thing for me?)

Calling social services sadly, doesn't always transport these kids to some magic Utopia. We expect social workers to do far far too much and then complain when their heaving inboxes collapse under the sheer volume of far too many cases that could have been sorted out by proactive extended family members.

OP, I'm going to be perfectly honest with you.

I would have rung SS a long time ago, as well as offering every spare hour of support I could offer, I would have listened to my sister, and done whatever I could to help her to cope, rather than to prove I was right IYSWIM. I would be 'in it with her' rather than 'me being right and her being wrong' and I would be seriously worried that she had no friends IRL, and that her DP didn't help her himself.

I would have asked SS for some support for her, to help the DC stay with their mum, to support her in managing, not hoping she would be evicted.

It sounds to me OP like you have reached the end of your tether and the reason you are so frustrated with your sister is because she doesn't listen to you, doesn't continue where you have left off, or follow your example and it appears you feel your mum shouldn't help as much as she is doing.
I sense resentment towards your sister in each of your posts.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason your sister may stay with her DP may not be because she is scared of being alone, but because she doesn't have anyone else who is not lecturing her on a regular basis about things she has no energy or motivation to tackle?
There are ways of helping people who are quite possibly very depressed, and showing them where they are going wrong and pointing out how smelly and dirty their house is, how unkempt her DC are and how they are not fed properly, or how she would be far better off without her DP, when she probably feels he knows her better than you or your mother does and maybe he loves her.

I haven't seen you say one positive thing about your sister, yet you seem to know an awful lot of what goes on in her house, even down to what they eat, how they sleep, who takes the DC to school, how often they wear clean socks even?
You know so much, yet you come across that you don't even like your sister tbh.

SS can help, they will do what they feel is best for the DC or they should, and if they feel that there is a way of keeping the family together by offering support, then I think they would rather do that than separate the family.

If I was you, I would ring SS, then I would wait for my sister to ask for my help, and I would gladly offer it. I think your sister would benefit from some unconditional support to help her out of this dark deep hole she has found herself in, something which you don't come across as able to offer her.

If I was your sister, I would accept help from SS, and I'd cut the sister who resents me so much, loose.

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I have not heard you say a single positive thing about your sister, her DC, her house, or her DP.

Just pick the phone up, and let someone who has a little more compassion and a little more understanding deal with a situation that you are too frustrated to deal with any more.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this post now, but if I lived the way your sister apparently lives (and how do you know all these things, does your sister tell you all of these things?) I'd not welcome so much resentment and critisicm.
Seems to me you are more than half hoping your sister will fail and lose her home so you'll have the pleasure of saying 'I told you so.'

I wondered if her still claiming benefits is because her partner doesn't contribute to the household, she's too proud to admit it

My best friend had to do this for years, about 10 years before she finally kicked him into touch but she'd been caught I doubt that would have cut any mustard with the courts. Sometimes I guess you have to do what you have to do to keep the children fed though.

'I'm sorry to be so harsh, but I have not heard you say a single positive thing about your sister, her DC, her house, or her DP. '

Maybe there isn't anything positive to say.

Why should the family keep cleaning up and bailing her out-she's a adult with responsibilities,she's not a child.

Call SS and ask for advice.

I think your sister would benefit from some unconditional support to help her out of this dark deep hole she has found herself in, something which you don't come across as able to offer her.

Do you think SS will offer her that ? Trinity will no doubt come along at some point and tell you how supportive she found SS and why SS are the last people this woman needs at her door.

I agree to a certain extent bochead . Whilst my family wanted to help me, they were so obviously ashamed (quite rightly so even tho they didn't know the full extent) of me that it made me approaching them for help so impossible.
OK. I am trying to think really honestly now. If my Dsis had called SS on me (and she would have had every right to) then I might have turned things around more quickly. To be honest it is all in the approach and it all depends on the person going through the rough time. I know all I wanted was someone not to judge me but to help me figure a way out of the mess I had created. I knew I was better than the person I was portraying but I had got into such a deep hole I didn't know how to get out without being defensive. Does that make sense?
Sorry OP I'm not helping - yes I definitely think your sister needs help. I just wish I could advise you the best way to do that.

SS can be helpful and supportive at times.
It sounds like she is in a circle of self damage and unable to make the changes. She clearly doesnt see anything wrong with how she lives, otherwise she would make some changes., or atleast show signs that she wants to.
I would suggest SS, but only because its clear the kids are nelgelcted and in need of some help. A four year old with no speech is a worry, as is the no bedding, the money spent on tatoos too.
You need to do this as their aunt, shes old enough to deal with herself and tbh if SS do become involved its her own fault not yours.

If your own family could not think of one single positive thing to say about you, your DP, your DC, your home, your life FFS, would you want them in your home? Offering you their nuggets of wisdom?

OP has already said her sister has no confidence. I'm sure constantly listening to how awful her whole life is inspires confidence in her.

SS are not infallible, I am not claiming they are, but there are some good SW's out there, and they are employed to safeguard DC. They don't always get it right, I am not saying they do, but surely after all this time, the sister must have noticed that her approach to her sisters situation hasn't helped and therefore it's time to do something else??

portaloo that has made me cry. Thats how I felt. That it was me against everyone. Every small step I made forward I was knocked back for not making a bigger step. I wanted someone anyone on my side! I wanted to be able to tell someone how badly I'd fucked up, how badly I wanted to put things right, I wanted advice, support. I didn't want lecturing, that could wait for a while.

OP, I've come across some mums who cannot cope with the slightest amount of untidyness and dusting/hoovering/cleaning. The thing is, these women just can't face even the tiniest amount of housework. It's like their brains' go haywire and scramble completely.

If you and your mum are doing the cleaning for her then she may see it as unnecessary to keep up with it as every now and then you'll come and do it before the landlord does a check.

So, IMVHO, now that the landlord has decided to do a weekly spot check, you should leave her to it on the basis that she knows herself that she needs to get her act together and stop relying on you and your mum to clean. You need to tell her in no uncertain terms (be very blunt if need be) that you won't be helping her again with cleaning and, if she messes up and gets evicted, it'll be her fault for not keeping up with the cleaning. Most landlords will cut slack for untidyness, but not being downright filthy.

BTW, you are not responsible for some else's actions/inactions.

OP has already said her sister has no confidence.

Well only one example agreed but a lady on here's husband died and her life spiraled downhill as it would and SS basically turned up and told her to pull herself together. I'd rather hear that from my family than a stranger given a choice or even the family just keep plugging away until the penny drops with the sister herself would be better than some heavy handed SW, since there's no way of know which type will knock the door.

the thing is in ss eyes, no matter what the reason, nelglect of children is not on.
They arent up for removing children for the hell of it and in some cases they can be just whats needed.
Maybe its what your sister needs?

If I had helped my sister time and time again because of her squalor and lack of care to no avail,there would come a time where I would think 'what is she doing to help herself' and 'is this working?'

It sounds like other help is needed other than close family going in and clearing up the sister/daughters life and mess.

She is not coping with life and she is not coping with her children and going in and clearing up the mess is a never ending battle at the moment.

Outside professional help is needed imo.

I agree with you Lisa but I just can't see the school not being on top of it if the children are turning up smelly and dirty, I mean really can you ?
My friend is a TA at a rough school and the kids are immaculate, if one was being neglected they'd stand out like a sore thumb and it would be blindingly obvious.

I am also struggling to accept that no one else has raised concerns about these DC.

OP's sister wont see HV, her 4 year old will be starting school in Sept and has extremely limited speech and incontinence which isnt unheard of tbh at that age, so has the 4 year old had all yearly checks done by HV. I'm guessing not if youngest DC doesn't see HV either.
Eldest DC misbehaves at school. She has 2 out of 4 DC at school, and they both smell, and wear dirty clothes, yet the school see neither hide nor hair of mum and the school haven't reported this?

The neighbours are making complaints against this woman, and it's reasonable to expect the neighbours to have seen the DC climbing up and down the gate and looking dirty and unkempt, yet they have only bothered to report the state of the garden?

I agree thingummy.
Tho I am torn. Half of me thinks she needs professional intervention yet the other half thinks she needs her family to be there for her. The problem is we don;t know the OP and we don;t know her sister so its impossible to say what would be the best approach. Like I said before I wish I knew what would have helped me back then.
Tho, and maybe this is relevant, on lots of threads on here I am often of the opinion that professional advice should be sought so maybe there is my answer.

You can't shake off HV's that easily, mine knocked the blooming door when I was asleep with newborn DS last summer and DH told her that it was our 4th child and she wasn't really needed, HV said she would be the judge of that and would be back that afternoon and did he know DV went through the roof during the world cup lol

The house might be a tip but the children must be arriving at school regularly and on time and can't be that bad otherwise the teachers would have called SS long ago.

Oh I think she needs her family there,but not for clearing up her mess but to support her.

It must be hard for all when you are in the thick of it.

There must be some deeper issues (and I understand why SisterTrouble hasn't gone into greater details) mental health or possible drug/alcohol problems.

Seek outside help and remain supportive.

I disagree mamtomany its very easy to shake off HVs.
With DC1 I was a single parent, had a traumatic birth and marked very highly on their "depression scale". I had no contact from them.
With DC3 I am happily married had a very easy home birth and didn't even register on their "depression scale" yet because I didn't take my DC3 to his 8month check (DH did) I have been inundated with calls checking I am ok. Pity they weren't so on the ball with DC1.

thing is, i have seen schools pass over children as they have "always been that way!".

And yes you can shake off a HV easy enough tbh. The ones here, only see the ones they know about. I have seen my HV twice in 2 years and both times I have gone to them, and they know I have 2 children with disabilities and a husband who is unwell but unless my life is falling apart they havent got time to see me.

Trust me some school dont like to get involved.