To hope my sister is about to learn a really hard lesson?

[Sistertrouble]

where do I start.

Dsis was on her very last chance with her landlord and I think she has just blown it.
She rents the house she lives in but the council pay her rent and council tax.
Lets say my sister is not the cleanest person in the world, well her house is an absolute pigs sty, its dirty smelly, even flys have moved in.
The house has no order in it at all, clean and dirty clothes mixed together spread all over the house, kitchen draws hanging off, holes in the walls and doors,
Just a complete mess.
My parents and I are always bailing her out doing a deep clean, fixing things ect before her landlord does a check, but it never lasts, a few days later it's back to the way it was.
Her poor dcs have to live in that, they go to school in dirty clothes, they wear the same socks all week, their feet really smell, god knows why the school haven't said anything they must of noticed.
The beds never have any covers or pillow cases on, their bedrooms carpets all ripped up, the dcs have no boundaries and never told off when they're naught, my sister has no control at all.
I could go on and on but I won't bore you with it all, yesterday her landlord turned up out of the blue and of course the place was a tip, she came because neighbours made a complant about the state of the garden, the gate blew off, well so she says, but i know the kids climb up and down it.
The landlord has said she will be doing weekly checks from now on, she is going back next week.
The icing on the cake is her oh lives there and he works full time while she us claiming to be a single parent, the landlord knows this as she has been told by neighbors and has said she is going to tell the council what she knows.

Sorry this is long but aibu to hope he gets caught living there and landlord gives her notice for her to move out?

yes, my MIL saves poor kids like these as a foster carer, there is no excuse on this planet i will take for not looking after your children properly. And yes i have experience of severe mental health issues before that line gets trotted out, those kids are suffering and that is not fair, the extended family are pussy footing around (understandably) and the result is these poor kids are left living like tramps

Why do you think she is choosing to live in this way? What is the reason?

I think anyone would be depressed living in those circumstances - which are largely of her own making.

Do you think she could be motivated to change, and if so, how? Do you think the weekly checks by the landlord (with threat of being kicked out) will do it?

How many dc, and how old?

I often think that there should be classes for people who cannot cope with domestic life. Like the kinds of people you see on the Kim & Aggie programme. Some people just lack the necessary skills.

Could you and/or your mum take the children temporaroly to allow her to get the place sorted and some routines in place? Would she be willing to try the flylady system?

Flylady - good idea, Seabright.

Is there anyone else in yr family who she would listen to - before this mess gets even worse?

Based on what OP has written, it is not a question of mental health issues, or lacking the necessary skills - it s a matter of lacking the will.

I'd focus on what would motivate her to live differently - and sadly, often it is the threat of something bad happening to upset the status quo.

Many people tend to procrastinate - it is often important meetings, deadlines, or bills that motivate them to get into gear. Often it is a fear of consequences that drives people to action.

If a person lives a life with no structure, no reason to get out of bed, clean the house, no need to earn money to live/pay bills, and no accountability to anyone - i can see how it would be very easy to have no self esteem, no self confidence and no motivation.

To whoever said that perhaps she needs 'help' - without knowing more specifics, I'd say perhaps she's had too much help. It has robbed her of the need/desire to make any sort of life for herself or her dc. She has completely abdicated all responsibility for her own life.

I think the landlord doing the weekly checks will help her keep on top of things, I will look at the fly lady thing in a bit, off out now.
Her dcs are 7,6,4 and 2,
Thanks for the input so far.

She is ill -short and simple.

She doesnt need teaching a lesson she needs help to 'sort herself' out and look atfer her family.

Short bursts of support are no good she needs longer term help and often.

I feel sorry for her.

earlybird I think you're spot on.

Why assume that she is ill? Perhaps she just can't be arsed a really doesn't give a shit, despite her protestations about wanting to change?

I totally agree, it sounds like they need help and support, the children are clearly being neglected and there may well be mental health issues involved, but frankly only people that WANT help are going get any benefit from it. And there's no excuse for commiting benefit fraud.

OP - it's great that you want to try and make things better for your sister and her family, I hope that you're able to help her sort herself out.

It's a very significant unknown whether or not this woman has mental health problems.

OP says she thinks that her sister had/has PND following the birth of the 4 yr old.

No-one knows if she is ill or lacking the will.

Bornagain. What is care like?

My last posting because this looks like it's going to get nasty.

OP has your sister always been a 'slob' or did the care of her children and home deteriorate only after the time you thought she had PND?

Whilst is commendable that people are now debating the "is she ill" avenue at the end of the day the landlord's house is a mess.

That landlord is highly likely to serve Notice on her and ask her to leave. The implications for the landlord of the fact your sister is claiming Housing Benefit and then likely to done for benefit fraud are huge.

If your sister is found to have claimed illegally (which it is with her OH living there) they will demand the money back. Which means they will go after the landlord. And they can do that for up to six years after receipt.

It is why so many landlords and agents say "no DSS" making it so much harder for genuine cases.

Also if that landlord has a buy-to-let mortgage and the they get wind of it they could be told to change their mortgage, costing them shedloads.

If I was your sister's landlord, or acting for her (I run a property management company) unfortunately I would have to advise the landlord to serve Notice. Not because I want to, but because I would have to.

And the fact that the property is not being looked after is another issue. Ultimately damage is being done to that property that will end up costing the landlord hundreds to put right.

Your sister needs a wake up call if she doesnt want to find herself sleeping in a council run hostel very soon.

A bit of straight talking and finger pointing might not be comfortable for all concerned but the reality is she could be out in two months.

And the Council will see her as "intentionally homeless" and not see her as any kind of priority. So where will that leave the kids? She needs to think about that.

And if this OH is working, where is his money? Why are they living like this and he is not taking any kind of interest / doing anything?

You need a family "conference" to help your sister before this gets a whole lot worse.

Ill or lacking the will no mother or woman really wants to neglect herself and her children like this.

op, it sounds like your sister is in significant trouble, but unless she chooses to be helped to resolve these issues, then there is probably nothing you can do for her. however, her four children do not deserve to live with consequences of her reluctance - and i accept it is more likely that your sister has a mental health issue than not - so perhaps you and your wider family should agree a strategy to provide them with appropriate care and support, and if necessary involve ss to provide you with support in doing so? i am sorry, i know this must be an awful situation to be in.

no,not ill

i have known many people like this,many, all fine people. just dont place hygiene as highly as some of us.

"Bornagain. What is care like?"

Care is very often just a succession of short-term foster homes, some run by abusive or purely financially-motivated individuals. Alternatively, children can be placed in 'units' and it is not uncommon for a child to be placed in a unit for children with mental health and/or drug & alcohol problems when in fact they don't have mental health and/or drug and alcohol problems themselves. The possible effects of this do not need spelling out.

It makes the children's homes of old seem so much more humane.

there is no care.....not anymore. its only reserved for the very,very high need cases

these children are being fed?
going to school?
basic needs met?
clothed appropriatly?

they wont be put in care for a bit of dirt and chaos!!

There are many foster carers who foster because they want to make children's lives better. In fact most foster carers are not in it for the money - they are rooted out by the vigorous assessment process all foster carers have to go through.

Do you honestly think these children are better off living with these "parents" who are supposed to protect them and put their needs first? Living in squalor and being obviously neglected is not giving them a "normal" childhood. What will happen is they will treat their own children exactly the same. And the cycle of abuse and neglect goes on and on.

I'm also interested in how long your sister has lived like this? Has she always been neglectful of her DC?
How much does her DP do to help? Does he help with the house when he is not at work?
Does your sister have many friends or anyone apart from you and your mother to help her?
I notice you say your sister doesn't listen in a few of your posts OP, and no matter what you do to help, your sister reverts to her usual squalor after a few days.
What does your sister say when you ask her why she lives this way? What does she say when you suggest she may find coping easier if she adopted a 'little but often' approach to housework?
What does her DP say about the situation? What about her DP's parents?
Are you and your mum the only family your sister has apart from her DC and DP?
Would you say you all have a good relationship with each other OP?

I don't think she's necessarily ill. Mental illness is becoming such a catch-all explanation for any kind of considered-not-the-accepted-norm behaviour that we risk sweeping genuinely ill people away with the possibles.

My half sister gave birth yesterday. The child (her 5th with 4 different men) has been taken away from her today. Her older 3 (one was a stillbirth) were left in their filthy house on their own last summer because her latest bloke didn't want them. First my Dad and other half sister knew was when SS called them to come and let them in to her house as she'd done a runner and left the children (youngest 18mths) feeding themselves for 4 days.

She's not mentally ill. She's a repulsive human being.

The 3 children are now with foster families and seem to be doing well. I've got a letter from the SS which I must reply to asking if anyone in the family wants to adopt any/all of them.

To go back to the OPs sister...I think a lot of people (and there are a fair few who live like this) just don't seem to have any significant reason not to, if that makes any sense. Someone will always be there to pick up the pieces. SS involvement might give her the short sharp shock she needs.

Right so you want your nephews and neices homeless? Some sister you are!

I have 4 dcs and the cleaning is a nightmare! At least 2 hours per day just to make it clean but messy and that is in addition to working nine hours, taking them to playgroup, school, cooking 3 meals, going to playgroup, taking them to various lessons.

It's unrelenting, its near impossible but i get up and mop the floor over and over and over because I love them. I survive on five hours sleep because they are worth it.

Please try and understand what it's actually like being a mother! Its fucking fucking hard work! It never ends!

It sounds like she needs help, or at the least a cleaner, but wishing her homeless is not addressing the problem.

You don't say how many kids she has, but trust me when you have to wash the floor and sweep every single time they eat, the bigger jobs do get put to one side,

I think that was a totally bitchy heartless post, from someone who doens't understand how much work is actually involved in looking after kids!

Sense from Bucharest.

Tarring people like ops sister as mentally ill detracts from those that really are IMO