to find my MIL's and others' hatred of irrational private education unfathomable?

[jillyherbert]

I have an otherwise reasonable and supportive MIL. However, when it comes to the subject of private education she is unable to have a reasonable discussion about it. When talking about our (as yet unconfirmed) plans to go private with our twin DSs phrases such as:
"Over my dead body"
"You'll ruin them"
"I won't have my grandsons turned into sneering toffs"
"I won't speak to you if you do this"
seem to be par for the course.

Where does this vitriolic bias come from? Neither I nor DH were privately educated, but most of the state schools within a large radius are shockingly bad (I teach at one, and have taught at two others so have enough knowledge to make a balanced decision.)

The same prejudice against private education is rife in my profession too. I once mentioned to a colleague that I was considering going private and the fuss this caused (and is still causing) almost lost me a friend or two.

I'm not here to discuss the merits of one system or the other, just why the debate seems to be framed by an irrational hatred of private education.

pointydog - I was very surprised at the irrational vitriolic bias of privately educated students towards state school students at university.

Hmm, not sure what kind of uni you went to pointy, are you sure?

'It's easy to see why one side would despise the other, no?'

Not really, no.Not despise.Speak for yourself.

My 80-yr old dad is exactly the same and it is tiring. DS currently goes to the local village primary school but is having some issues. If we need to send him privately to help him then I will do and it is nobody else's business.

What's wierd for me tho' is that my dad (and mum) bucked the system to get me into grammar. (That was the right thing for me then so they did what they thought was right at the time).

I think there is jealousy involved and it goes very deep.

We haven't even gone there yet with DH's parents....

Arf at smallwhitecat!

What I found funny at uni was that whatever we all thought of private or state education, we all ended up rubbing together at the same universities!

Until now speedy, until now. Huge increases in fees will mean that those of means will use European and Ivy League institutions.

Ah, yes of course. I doubt I could afford to go to my uni were I applying now.

How do you define the loss to state school or privately educated children or to wider society caused by private education that provides the moral angle to the debate? And how often do we apply a 'greater good' argument to our own children? I pay for swimming lessons rather than for mosquito nets or sight saving surgery in developing countries. I am privately educated and my husband state educated. I instintively want our children to go to a state school, and he very much doesn't. I'm finding it difficult to argue my case coherently with him.

I went to a russell group uni. Not sure if that's relevant though. And I made clear that I do not despise anyone. I am very comfortable with the existence of both private and state education. But I can easily see why both sides continually jab at the other.

Not sure why you;re getting so arsey with me.

CaptainNancy, just because parent send their children to private school doesn't mean they can or will pay for their university education.

I think some people have a very distorted view of the income bracket of these parents. Most stretch themselves to afford the school fees and their children will take out student loans like everyone else. Anyway, children who attend private school will also think twice about going to university now
The only winners atm will be medical students as they will have a guaranteed high income at the end of it, sufficient to pay off their university fees in record time if they want to.

I dont know if YABU OP, but I agree private education is irrational

The OP isn't genuine surely? There's a faux naivety about the comments - I just don't believe a teacher would say this stuff.

crystal-I really do think people who will be forking out £9k per year on top of living costs will begin sending their children abroad- either to Europe (many very low cost or even free universities, often lectures in English language) or to the US specialist universities such as MIT, Berkeley, Harvard, Yale etc.

Parents who have stretched themselves for 7 or 14 year's worth of school fees surely would continue for a mere 3 or 4 years further? Why give up when the goal is in sight?

It's not just medical students who earn well- in reality their first few years after university are not that well remunerated I believe.
Vets, dentists, solicitors, accountants, actuaries, traders all earn well above average without having to fork for 7 year's fees and living costs either.

Vets do 7 years, so do dentists.

and architect's.

My friend's daughter is a dentist- she did 5 years, but yes architects do 7 years, though many are not well paid at all. Sorry about vets.

Well I stretched myself for school fees but there's no way I would pay university fees. I just couldn't afford it. Lots of my friends are in exactly the same position. My dc has had to take out a loan like everyone else.

There's loads of 4 year courses too. Double major's, all types of engineering do 4 with your more or less mandatory year in industry (most courses are structured to do masters at same time which makes it 5) Language degrees need a year abroad.

There's a surprisingly large number of longer courses for fairly standard things.

My sister mentioned casually the other day that she would like to send her DS to a private school. I quietly nodded but inwardly thought WTF??! We both went to an inner london state school and she particularly has done very well out of it.

There is no way me and my DH could afford to send our DDs to a private school and anyway, I don't think I could actually bring myself to do it from a political/moral point of view.

It made me confused and I am ashamed to say it - angry - wandering what sort of life/people my sister thinks he is protecting her DS from? Kids like mine? Obviously she wants to give her DS 'a foot up' in life. Yeah, a 'foot up' against kids like mine? Or does she just want her DS to have a posher accent than my kids and mix with 'nicer' parents?

In a nut shell that is why I dislike the private system. It's unfair (and panders to people's secret snobbery). Children should all have an equal start in life - a great education with inspiring teachers and excellent facilities. Some kids will soar ahead for the rest of their life just because their parents were lucky enough to have a bit of money...

Chip on my shoulder? Too damned right!

I like the sound of OP's MIL. Sounds like a woman who understands the broader picture. We should have more people like her standing up and defending the state system.

It's disappointing that the OP is a teacher who clearly has little faith in the abilities of herself, her employers and her colleagues. Beggars the question why she is not working in a private school herself?

KCS you are being very offensive and you need to remove that chip before it does you an injury. You are making all sorts of unfounded assumptions and perpetuating stupid myths about people who send their children to private school, not to mention their children, who don't deserve to be spoken about in that way. I suggest you lobby parliament instead.

Private school supporters are being remarkably restrained on this thread considering the provocations. Lets all attack state schools and their supporters why don't we? See how you like it?

KCS your problem is that you think it's all about you. These other people make their decisions without even considering you because it has nothing to do with you! We would have sent our kids private if we had not been able to move out of the Croydon area to a place with better state schools. The local school the girls were enrolled into there was like a zoo but with none of the charm.

How do you feel about free schools then KCS?

Taking millions of pounds from other equally deserving schools, and letting anyone whose parent has time to contribute have priority?

Or grammar schools- allowing those who are of high academic ability to be 'creamed off' and let the others go to sink schools?

Or faith schools that discriminate against those that do not profess a faith, and mean that children in some areas cannot attend their local school, or even in some areas their local 3 or 4 schools?

There is nothing fair about the English education system- had you not noticed?

Oi, grammar schools were great, they gave the talented working classes an escape route. A route since closed off so parents who want to do the best for their kids now have to buy private education if they are unlucky enough to live in places with bad state provision.

Or state provision that's nigh on impossible to get into because it's so oversubscribed. I know, I've been there.

Unless you expect your MIL to help with school fees, it has nothing to do with her.
I really don't care where people educate their children but there have been a couple of posts recently where the poster thought she was doing the rest of us a favour by freeing up a place at the local comprehensive so therefore she should be spared tuition fees because of the amount she had spent on her child's education. I found that point of view ridiculous.

OldM- I am not passing judgement, merely pointing out the injustices in the current system! (I am in favour of a grammar system myself, but it would certainly be more palatable if children that did not gain a grammar place were given an excellent education too, albeit one with a technical, artisanal, vocational, musical, etc emphasis instead)