to find my MIL's and others' hatred of irrational private education unfathomable?

[jillyherbert]

I have an otherwise reasonable and supportive MIL. However, when it comes to the subject of private education she is unable to have a reasonable discussion about it. When talking about our (as yet unconfirmed) plans to go private with our twin DSs phrases such as:
"Over my dead body"
"You'll ruin them"
"I won't have my grandsons turned into sneering toffs"
"I won't speak to you if you do this"
seem to be par for the course.

Where does this vitriolic bias come from? Neither I nor DH were privately educated, but most of the state schools within a large radius are shockingly bad (I teach at one, and have taught at two others so have enough knowledge to make a balanced decision.)

The same prejudice against private education is rife in my profession too. I once mentioned to a colleague that I was considering going private and the fuss this caused (and is still causing) almost lost me a friend or two.

I'm not here to discuss the merits of one system or the other, just why the debate seems to be framed by an irrational hatred of private education.

Own morality. Not win morality. That would be something different entirely.

Thanks pag.

Quite.

Shakirasma - I don't want to send my daughter to the private schools my friends are sending theirs to at all! I honestly just feel offended that they think that the options, that I thought were perfectly ok, are shit enough that they'd rather pay for private school, which, as a previous poster said, is not necessarily better in every way.

It is none of your MIL business where your children are educated. Do what you want and you shouldn't feel obliged to justify your decision to anyone.

I too have known people with an irrational hatred of private education/ schools and it is reverse snobbery. A couple spring to mind who can afford private, choose not to, yet subsidise their children's average state education with private GCSE tutoring and private lessons in sports clubs/ music lessons etc To me, that's hypocritical. The DH of the couple (a socialist) can't have any conversation at all without berating private education/ schools/ those that send their kids private... it gets really boring and it's like he's searching for recognition/ praise for not choosing private schools even though they could afford it.

I went to private school as did my dc and have learnt to keep quiet about it as it raises people's hackles. I NEVER draw attention to it when with friends who have state educated their dc nor do I ever pass any comment about their children's education apart from celebrating their successes along with everyone else. However I find some of their remarks downright rude and completely uncalled for. Why do some friends think it is ok to sneer and make offensive remarks about my choices? I really don't want to fall out with them as I like them a lot but I detect a certain amount of glee from some of them if my dc has any problems at all.

If you are the type of person who would rather send your own child/grandchild to a rubbish state school than a private school to make some sort of social or political point then you deserve to get a good slap. I would then extend this to those that judge people who simply choose to spend money on a private education even if the local school is fine

Ditto people who bring their children up as vegan / devoutly religious / homophobic etc

Prejudice against people who send their children to private school is still prejudice on the basis of 'class' or income or background and therefore reprehensible

I'm not sneering at all. And I make the rest of who look thick?

He op asked a question, I gave my opinion. Any my opinion is simply that those who object to private schools resent the extra choice that money can buy.

And that is what it is buying after all, choice, because private does not automatically mean better.

We should all do our best for out kids within our means and stop bothering about what other people are doing.

Some people assume that all fee paying schools must inherently be better for all children, which is tosh.

It is your business and your business only how you choose to spend your money and how you wish to parent your children. It does always baffle me though why people are suprised at the standard of their local comprehensives when they're happy to go private at the slightest hint of trouble - all the other wealthy parents have done the same.

YANBU though, she does seem to be basing her thoughts on her perceptions of the more elite public schools, not a run-of-the-mill local private school.

But it isn't all resentment though, some people genuinely disapprove and have a right to, calling it resentment across the board is ignorant and assumes that all private schools are better.

However, I think if someone came onto MN loudly disapproving of those who use the state education system they would be (rightly) admonished...ditto in real life. However it is considered fine to criticise others' choices when they involve fee paying education.

Sorry, my last was to Shakirasma.

"If you are the type of person who would rather send your own child/grandchild to a rubbish state school than a private school to make some sort of social or political point then you deserve to get a good slap....

Ditto people who bring their children up as vegan / devoutly religious / homophobic etc"

You had my full support there for a moment, gdmts. I too have no time for those who're willing to sacrifice their children's education on the altar of some political principal either. To equate veganism, which is generally associated with a disgust of killing healthy living creatures, with depriving a child of the best possible education is insulting.

DS is in a good state school; DD may have to go to a not very good state school. I can't afford private education for her, and I suppose if someone started talking to me about their child being at a private school, I would feel guilt at not making different choices in life so that I could have ensured DD a good education.

So I suppose some people react badly to conversations about private school because they feel they have let their own children down.

I dislike private schools because they are socially divisive, as in they cream off the children of the rich who care enough about their children's education, or who want their children to socialise with a certain type of people. It's called gheottoising, and it is never good for society as a whole.

Jealousy is nothing to do with it. A desire for a more harmonious, fair and equal society is behind most people's dislike of segretating children in this way.

It is very disingenuous of you to pretend that you can't see the difference between choosing to spend your money on education and choosing to spend it on other things. Education is one of the main determining factors in a child's prospects and quality of life for the future. Which, as a teacher, you well know.

I am not even slightly surprised that you fell out with colleagues about this. Many teachers in the state system are passionate about improving the prospects of all children, not just those whose parents can afford it. As a teacher in a state school, you were either very brave or very naive to admit you don't think the state system is good enough for your children.

I wonder what the parents of your pupils think? I would be disappointed if I was one of them as it seems to indicate you have no confidence in your own school or your colleagues.

I honestly do not give a flying turnip where anybody else educates their child. What I do dislike is smuggery and/or self-justification about their choices, with implied or actual criticism of people who have made a different choice. You get both state and private school versions of this.

The private school version usually involves:

1. some explanation of why their child is too precious/special/bright/sensitive to go to a state school
2. some deluded assumption that all state primary schools are social work departments full of feral 5yo and all secondary schools are holding pens for adolescents who are not quite old enough for prison. At worst, you get people expressing surprise at the notion that kids in state school have actual lessons. Often accompanied by a pervasive urban myth about FOAF's child who took a violin to a state school and was beaten up as a result.
3. The equally deluded notion that everyone could afford private education if they cut back on holidays and didn't buy a new car.

The state school version is different but equally annoying. It generally involves a belief in the parents' moral superiority for choosing the state option, while conveniently ignoring the fact that they have bought a £1.5 mil house in the catchment area of a desirable London primary full of meejah kids, or have feigned religion to get into a church school, or moved to a lovely middle class village in a smart part of Oxfordshire. Or sometimes a slightly inverted snobbery about the fact that they have done none of these things, and sent their child to a school that other people regard as rough.

To both sets of smug/snobby/self-righteous parents I would say: It's a school, people. You send your children there to learn to read, write, acquire social skills and pass some GCSEs. If you have the money to go private, you have a wider set of options. That's life. If you go state, then you have more money to spend on other stuff. Neither choice makes you a better person, nor should you expect any other bugger to validate your choices. Choose what you think is right for your child, spend your money as you choose and then STFU about it.

[gavel]

My parents didn't have much spare cash but paid for my private education. It was definately worth it, I loved my school, made many long lasting friends, opened up my perspective on life and got excellent results. I only went for the last two years but it was so much better an education than I had been recieving, with none of the negative values being thrown at me by the people who should have known better. (Careers advisor "what do you want to be?" Me "A lawyer" Careers Advisor "I think thats aiming too high. What about a librarian?" Me "but I got all As in my exams"...)

That said, I didn't recieve any inheritance when they died. But I'd much rather have had my education than ended up a spoilt brat, having everything bought for me and leaving me with little or no motivation.

MillyR, I don't really understand why anybody should feel guilty about sending their children to state schools, but if they do, that doesn't give them the right to be overtly rude to people who do.

I would assumme most parents on mumsnet have choices in the way they bring up their families. Some will move house to ensure they're in the catchment area of a good school, thus depriving other parents of a place. Some parents will pay for their children to be tutored, or pay for music lessons. All these things could be interpreted as giving their children an unfair advantage.

All children should have access to a good education..not just those that can afford it, so on those grounds I strongly object to private education

jealous ..no
chip on shoulder ..probably

I was going to rant but dollius has put it very well. We could afford to pay private school fees but will use the state system as this is what our principles dictate. Having as many intelligent, interested, involved parents in the state system as possible will improve that system and the lot of all children whether their parents are in those categories or not.

"Education is one of the main determining factors in a child's prospects and quality of life for the future."

Yep. Which is why I'm in favour of independent education and cannot understand people like you, dollius, who aren't.

No sarcasm intended. I just don't get why anyone would deny their children private education if they can provide it or why they would resent those who do so either.

Heh heh Shakarisma. Beautifully proved my point.

Dolious - 'I dislike private schools because they are socially divisive, as in they cream off the children of the rich who care enough about their children's education, or who want their children to socialise with a certain type of people. It's called gheottoising, and it is never good for society as a whole.'

Did you go to a private school or do you know anybody who has been? They are definitely not all full of rich kids and I can't see how it can be considered to be ghettoising. I live in an area where there are loads of rich and poor kids, some of whom got to state schools and some private, but they all go to the same local clubs, mix at Brownies, Scouts and Guides and hang out together in the local shopping centre.

It's easy to have a go aavet parents who choose private education but it's the politicians that should be targetted. If so many people are against them I wonder why they haven't been abolished? Even the labour party didn't do it.

Well I have to deal with the complete opposite from MIL. She was terribly disappointed when we sent dd to state school. Could not understand why we would decline their offer to subsidise fees for private.

DD has been there for 4 years now and ds1 in reception. MIL's way of dealing with it is to never ask about school, never mention the place and generally be completely detached in terms of having any interest in how they're getting on (very well). While being a stalwart in the grandparent helpers at nephews' and nieces' schools. :(

BUt - we made our decision based on how we felt about primary education, and I suppose I just have to suck up the indifference because is better than criticism, for sure! :)

So bibity's state education gave her the wisdom to understand arguments against private education but mine didn't?

Well at least mine taught me the manners to consider and not laugh at the opinions of others.

I shall be sending my son to a private secondary, although he attends state primary. I think that there has been a lot of money spent badly on education, the CforE in Scotland a joke, and the quality had deteriorated steadily for years.

Stopping my child going private won't change that, and at least he isn't taking up the state resources, already stretched.

Your kids, your rules. Mil had her chance with her own children.