OW/OM , I think they really are quite stupid .

[droves]

Why would you want to have a relationship with someone , when you know you will only get at best 50% of their attention ?.

Not to mention missing out on all the nice things , like having them introduce you to their family and friends. Or being know as the girlfriend/boyfriend.

Why on earth would anyone one want to be kept secret , like a dirty secret?.

I cant understand why anyone would put up with that.

If you find out that the person you are seeing is married/has partner you get rid because they are
a) dishonest lying twat.
b) untrustworthy
c) will probably do it again when they get bored of you ,
and d) has a overblown sense of entitlement that they believe its their right to treat people so badly.

Dont buy the "but we fell in love , so its ok" line either.
Thats just stupid .
If they are decent they would split with their dp , before they make their mind up to persue someone else.
I dont believe ow/om are evil , just stupid. so aibu?.

I've never been the OW but have dealt with another woman that misinterpreted my husbands comments in his kitchen and began some 'Fatal Attraction' bull shit to split us up. She was pretty fucked up.

Does anyone agree with me that human beings are messy creatures and make choices every day that may hurt their loved ones?

The reaction to infidelity on this site at times makes me very surprised. It's bad, sure - but so are a lot of behaviours, many of them a lot less understandable in the context of a long term relationship, and they don't provoke such extreme reactions.

Obviously, I don't wish to minimise or discount anyone's pain.

Are there any societies that don't put such a great store on fidelity?

I think - and more to the point HE thinks that the wife knows. As he once put it, "I'd be bloody surprised if she didn't!". (I'm not the first OW in his life, btw, and I don;t expect I'll be the last).

They have a now adult child (if that makes sense) - my DDs are not his. His marriage started falling apart years ago and although on the face of it theirs is a perfect marriage, at school meetings when his child was younger, at "the right" social gatherings etc, most of the time they have separate lives. He pays the bills, she doesn't work and hasn't for years and years, he earns a very good salary, the house is bought and paid for, he pays for her car, her credit card, her expensive hobbies... why would she want to let the genie out of the bottle by confronting him on his infidelity?

Birthdays - he and I went away for my 40th but usually we don;'t fuss. We're too bloody old to do all that palaver!

Christmas we have our own lives - remember I have two children, I spend Christmas with them and my wider family as I always have and he with his wife, their daughter and his parents. I flippin' detest Christmas anyway and he's no great fan - he longs to return to the office and I just want it all over with and life back to normal!

I have never called myself anything apart from "bot on the side" jokingly to him, but to others I'm just Vallhala.

... so there is differnt types of ow/om then ?

Deliberate ones who seek out attached people to have relationships with.
Ones who only date attached ones ,because they cant cope with/or want full blown relationships.
accidental ones ...who are duped into it by partners who lie about relationship status.
proud ones ... who enjoy being ow/om.
Overlap ones , who are only ow/om because the partner is trying to hard to be kind to ex and finds it hard to force the end so it drags out way past the point of doom.

but no stupid ones. i stand corrected.

Bot on the side? Tsk! I meant bit on the side of course!

I'm sure there are stupid ones. Just like there are stupid husbands, wives, sisters, brothers, etc.

I don't think choosing to be the OW/OM defines someone. It's one facet of a complex person.

Thank you Val for answering my questions ,
im begining to see why you have made the choice you have.

What would you do if the wife suddenly "hit the roof" ?,
Or if he left her ?

Assuming it would change the dynamics of the relationship , do you think you would want it to continue?

droves - no, ask away. To cut a very long story short, we both wanted to be together 'properly' but I couldn't see this happening for a long time for various reasons, and I felt I needed to walk away from it for both our sakes.

Was it the right decision? I have heard he is still unhappy in his marriage. I am still single, and in the 2 years since it ended have only met one man who in any way compared to him, and he wasn't interested in me, so neither of us actually seem any better off apart.

OP..I'm not asking you to 'walk in my shoes', I'm asking you not to judge ow/om or consider them stupid unless you understand the circumstances in which they have found themselves in these relationships.

Hatesponge ...if he left his wife ,would you take him back ?

whilst i agree that staying with someone who is basically using you for their own ends is stupid , not all situations end this way . I once worked with a belgian woman who was very happy with her affair ,he paid for her flat ,gave her gorgeous clothes etc ,took her to fabulous places , she reckoned that she would stay with him for 5 years max and then look for a husband . when i asked how she would feel if her husband did the same she just shrugged and said she wouldnt mind aslong as she got the nice stuff first ,so some people dont mind the situation .

and in relation to the types you mention I didn't/don't fall into any of them:

Deliberate ones - no, he's the only married man I've ever been involved with
Ones who cant cope with/want full blown relationships - no, I wanted to be with him for the rest of my life
accidental ones - I knew he was married the first time I met him
proud ones - not really. I never hid it, but it was never all I wanted to be iyswim
Overlap ones - not me either.

I guess it just shows there are any number of reasons why someone finds themselves in that situation.....

VAL your posts have been fascinating but the kids have just got back from the chip shop and I've got a new Elvis CD to listen to its 'Lonesome Tonight'I expect you've already listened to it a few times.

Your answer is sex. Sometimes the other woman is married as is the other man. They play away because they can and it's purely for sexual reasons. Why else would they do it if not for the excitement, as you say they don't get nothing out of it.

halfpastwine ...its only been the last few posts that have gave me any idea as to why someone would become ow/om. In rl , its more likely to be the wronged /wife/husbands point of view that is spoken about.
Unless you see why , then its easy to believe the steriotypes.iyswim??

If the wife suddenly hit the roof I'd be there with Bandaid and Germoline for the poor bugger I suspect!

Seriously, what could I do? Not much.

He won't leave her. I'm 100% sure of that. He has too much to lose too - octogenarian parents who would be shocked and distressed, a bloody great house, stocks and shares, pension rights, amounting to a total of something around half a million, his standing professionally, his adult daughter would be shocked though I suspect eventually supportive of her father. He doesn't want the genie to escape any more than his wife does.

And I don't either.

Like Hatesponge, I think I would wait a very long time to find a man who even comes close to comparing to him though.

Droves, if a year ago he'd pitched up on my doorstep with his suitcase and said he'd left his wife, I would have taken him back unreservedly. The more time that passes, the less sure I am. But I don't think unless and until I meet someone else I feel similarly about, it will ever be a definite no.

Hatesponge ...im begining to see that there are loads of reason why someone would be ow/om.

I had a brief relationship with a married man in my mid 20s. It was at the time, loneliness and sex. I wasn't stupid. or evil. And neither was he. I was human, and exhausted from trying to make relationships with suitable potential mr rights work. Brief fling with married man recharged me... gave me the energy to stay single again for a while and not get sucked in by any bastards.

I definitely wouldn't do it again as i'm stronger now and better able to deal with loneliness if it hits me, and I have felt like that for over a decade.

Beesimo, am not quite sure why you feel you need to be so unpleasant to Valhalla...but for the record it can actually be quite nice to have evenings to yourself. I know that, as I sit here with no make up, scruffy hair and comfy PJs, I'm quite glad not to have a man around to tut at my appearance, or be asking me to switch the TV onto Match of the Day!

anyone who is bit on side is daft.and the fatalistic cheesetastic

the i/we couldnt help ourselves
cant help who you fall in love with

if relationship is a goer you wouldn't be the fancy piece

Val , you love this man , why dont you want to be with him full time ?

Can i ask a slighty diffent question ?

What do you think of polygamy ? If it were an option , would you consider it ?

droves, no I don't want to be with him full time. I'm essentually a loner, far happier with my own company. I have two teenagers, there's more than enough noise and company in this house already. Sometimes I want to yell, "Bugger off!" to them as it is!

Like Hatesponge, tonight I'm in, well, not pjs yet, but old jeans and boots, surrounded by paperwork and my dogs, feet up... I don't want to talk to someone else, cook for or with them, accomodate what they want to watch on television, turn MN off out of courtesy to them... I want to slob out in silence. That feeling is the one I have the vast majority of the time.

As to polygamy, I'm cool with it, as long as I'm not expected to be a paricipant. I don't "do" strong emotions or moral judgements on others' marital or sexual practices or preferences (hardly in a position to, am I?) but am just happy to let people get on with it. I've been married and I would never do it again but if it works for others, with one or more partners, good luck to them.

Do you find "normal" (lack of better word)relationships too intense/suffocating ?.

Well, I'm sat here in scruffy pj's MNetting and watching TV, paperwork and cat at my feet.
I like my own company too. I am self sufficient.
I have 2 noisy children.
I'd quite like some adult company and a shag.
I will refrain from doing with with someone who is MARRIED to someone else. Sorry it is just not in my moral code.
Been on the other side, and the betrayal and lies hurt a whole lot, even if the marriage was failing already. Almost been an OW, but when I found out, I walked away.
I have empathy, I am able to see and feel the hurt that would be caused, and to not want to be the cause of it.
And don't think it wont happen. I know a woman whose husband had an affair for THIRTY years, she didnt know, although I am sure like you and your "P", they convinced themselves she did. At the age of almost 70, this has torn her and her families lives apart. Why would someone do that?? I am sorry I really and truly do not get how you can be so blinkered that you cant see or care what it would do?