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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

OW/OM , I think they really are quite stupid .

258 replies

droves · 12/03/2011 14:28

Why would you want to have a relationship with someone , when you know you will only get at best 50% of their attention ?.

Not to mention missing out on all the nice things , like having them introduce you to their family and friends. Or being know as the girlfriend/boyfriend.

Why on earth would anyone one want to be kept secret , like a dirty secret?.

I cant understand why anyone would put up with that.

If you find out that the person you are seeing is married/has partner you get rid because they are
a) dishonest lying twat.
b) untrustworthy
c) will probably do it again when they get bored of you ,
and d) has a overblown sense of entitlement that they believe its their right to treat people so badly.

Dont buy the "but we fell in love , so its ok" line either.
Thats just stupid .
If they are decent they would split with their dp , before they make their mind up to persue someone else.
I dont believe ow/om are evil , just stupid. so aibu?.

OP posts:
VajazzHands · 13/03/2011 14:18

Im most shocked by vallhalla though as have had a mnet crush on her and her animal right anti-war moral outrage for a while now!

cantspel · 13/03/2011 14:18

It is not a choice if you dont know it is happening.
And having a partner who cheats is a lot different that agreeing on an open marriage.

Vallhala · 13/03/2011 14:20

droves, I'm not awfully accepting. I'm incredibly selfish about how much of me I'm prepared to give and incredibly laid-back (no sarky comments please!).

You may have seen me lose it on here - I've done so on two issues and can't think of any others which will provoke me that much. I get furious about stupidity over all things cruel and ignorant regarding dogs and I came close to calling someone a cunt recently when they inferred that it was my fault that I had got breast cancer because I FF. Other than that very little troubles me unduly. Life is too damn short. This issue isn't one which will provoke such strong emotion from me, either on here or in RL. It's not about being "accepting", it'a about knowing how much I want to accept.

Jemima, with that in mind, you sound terribly angry and stressed about something which doesn't affect you personally. As for your comment, "You can't stand by the graveside or watch him role into the crematorium because you are his dirty secret..." - you want to bet?

I won't have a say in where it is but nothing could stop me from being there if that's what I wanted to do and if I felt that was right for me.

However who knows what the future will bring? I may well die before him, we may well go our separate ways and another woman may well take my place. No-one knows and I don't live my life according to what if.

Anyhow, this is boring because this is detracting from the OP - whilst I wanted to put an alternative to the stereotype up for discussion I wasn't intending this to be the Vallhala show.

Original poster
droves · 13/03/2011 14:30

Fair enough Val , thank you again , for your input on this thread .
Whatever peoples opinons are , it was thought provoking and i for one have learned much from your experiences.
Mainly not to buy into a single train of thinking or a stereotype.

And for what its worth , the FF/cancer comment is an awful thing to say to anyone.

OP posts:
beesimo · 13/03/2011 14:33

JMF You have a clear understand of what is good and true I wish I could express myself as well as you do. It is important women like you are on MM you add a bit of TRUTH to the conversation. They world is a much sadder place because liars cheats and manipulators have no self knowledge of the fact that their behaviour is not only destructive to others but that in the end it is their own souls they shrivel to nothing. Your actions become what you are. How many people really want to be Liar and Cheat

Vallhala · 13/03/2011 14:34

Thank you for being so polite and well mannered throughout this thread despite it being about something which goes so much against your own moral code and way of living, droves.

I'm sure you're all exceptionally bored of me now so you'll be glad to know I'm off to do some work. Have a nice afternoon all.

JemimaMuddleFuck · 13/03/2011 14:35

Val. I'm not terribly angry; or stressed. I just don't like what you're doing.

I won't take a bet about the graveside, because I think you have a lot of face(s).If it felt right for you, you would turn up at the funeral.

You mention rescue animals that are mistreated; but clearly have no empathy for another human being (the wife and the children).

I have no axe to grind; and no anger to diffuse.
I am (most times/sometimes/usually) happily married, have been for many years.

But as you say; "you're not the first".

Delightful; sloppy seconds and one in a long line of mistresses.

beesimo · 13/03/2011 14:48

VAL I missed that bit about the funeral you would take the risk however slight of upsettinG the family and taking away the widows last little bit of dignity in burying HER husband to fufill your needs you are beyond the beyonds. Back to your kennels with you

SoupDragon · 13/03/2011 14:51

Of course she would, Beesimo. She doesn't give a fuck about his family. OW/M never do.

JemimaMuddleFuck · 13/03/2011 15:07

I've seen this many times before.

Women that adopt the same attitudes and approaches as Men.
In no way is it liberating; equal or independent.

zest01 · 13/03/2011 15:41

I've not read the whole thread but yes op yabu. I'm not condoning the way some people choose to behave but I think it is a bit daft to say that people who behave in a way you disagree with are stupid, whether that's infidelity or anything else.

People will have opinions and we may agree or disagree but essentially you are lumping all ow/om into one category and I don't think life is that black and white. Some might be ar$eholes, some might be naive, some might be misguided......eyc but are they ALL stupid? I doubt it....

Hatesponge · 13/03/2011 17:11

To be fair it is the person who is married who should be concerned about their marriage, and their family. That is not something which should concern anyone outside the marriage. I don't understand why people vilify OW/OM, and the unfaithful partner is viewed as just a pawn in their game.....

I think that if you're in a happy relationship/marriage, it's hard to see why someone would put themselves in the position of being the OW/OM. The perception is that there are so many great guys around (you've found yours, why shouldn't others etc) why settle for half of something?

However, not everyone wants to live with someone (like Val, who has explained her position earlier in the thread and said why it suits her not to have a man around all the time) and also there's no guarantee that you will meet someone better. As was said earlier, a lot of single men in their 30s/40s are single for a reason, or indeed are looking for younger models (I know plenty who will only date women 10+ years younger).

When I ended things with my MM 2 years ago I thought one of two things would happen: either a) he would leave - although for various reasons I knew this was unlikely or b) I would easily meet someone else. Neither has happened, and I'm simply now reminded of what I said to him once - that being with him part of the time was far better than being with anyone else all the time. Or indeed being on my own, which is how I have ended up, as I won't accept a man who is not his equal.

constantlywrong · 13/03/2011 17:26

YABU.

Life isn't black and white.

JemimaMuddleFuck · 13/03/2011 17:52

Life is never black or white.

Yes actually it often is.

When One marries it states "Foresaking all Others, in Sickness and in Health; as Long as we both may live"

That's as black and white as you can get it.

f you're an adult; and you make those vows before God or Elvis. That's Black and White.

constantlywrong · 13/03/2011 17:54

You don't always turn out to be married to the person you thought you were.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf · 13/03/2011 17:59

"When One marries it states "Foresaking all Others, in Sickness and in Health; as Long as we both may live""

No you don't - I never said that. The legally required vows do not include that text - which I believe (and I may be wrong) is a Christian bit of wording.

Sorry being a pedant but there's no such wording in a civil ceremony unless you add it in yourself.

beesimo · 13/03/2011 18:02

JMF I do love you but please would you consider changing your name to JM Special Cuddle

JemimaMuddleFuck · 13/03/2011 18:04

You don't always turn out to be married to the person you thought you were

I assume that you mean that they didn't turn out to be the person , you thought they were ?

Getting Married is Easy.

Getting married to the "right" person is more difficult.

constantlywrong · 13/03/2011 18:06

No I meant turned out to be married the the person you thought you were married to. Sorry, awful grammar.

And you're damn right it's difficult. It's also difficult to tell the difference as to whether you have married the "right" person or not. It's also not always as easy to "just leave"

AlmostOverYou · 13/03/2011 18:11

Jemima - you also promise "til death us do part" and yet people seem to have no trouble forgetting or departing from that one or indeed many other of the vows - despite "for richer for poorer" I understand that financial problems is one of the biggest causes of matrimonial difficulties and splits. Why then is "forsaking all others" held up for such special reverence?

AlmostOverYou · 13/03/2011 18:13

More specifically - why are the people who break that vow held up to specific vilification?

WassaAxolotl · 13/03/2011 19:14

Well, this thread has been an interested reminder that mumsnetters are three-dimensional human beings.

Oblomov · 13/03/2011 21:19

Have read whole thread. But nothing written justifies it, for me, morally. Affairs are just wrong. we all know that and we can try to dress it up, validate it is any way we choose. But deep deep down, we all know its wrong. becsue we all know whats right and whats wrong.

zest01 · 13/03/2011 21:52

IMO there are different degrees of wrong though. It's so easy to take the moral highground but it's always going to be a sensitive issue if you've been on the receiving end and less so if you've been on the other side.

I'm on the fence here - yes it's wrong but it's not the worst thing a person can do (though it DOES feel like it when you are on the receiving end!) and sometimes (not always) there are other factors that result in the behaviour. To give a different example, Speeding is "wrong" and we all know it's against the law, but for many it's not the crime of the century. Someone who lost a loved one in a road accident caused by speed would probably disagree.......

I suppose the point I'm making is that we all have our own moral compass, largely shaped by our own experiences as we go through life. It's rarely fixed - mine is different now than it was in my teens, for example. In my lifetime I have been cheated on, I have cheated and I have been the OW. I had a turbulent period of life when all sorts of things were going on - that's a fact, not an excuse. I was in a different place to where I am now. Now I am older and wiser I wouldn't want to be involved on any side of the issue but am I a really bad person? I like to think not. And am I stupid? I may be biased but I would say no.

As I and others have said, life is not black and white. When we make vows and promises, we (usually) mean them at the time but things, and people, change. If the other perso has broken some of their promises too, then who shoulders the blame? Both of them, in my opinion.

Oblomov · 14/03/2011 07:19

Ah, well although I agree with zests eaxmple re speeding, I disagree on the 'degrees of wrongness'. It is balck and white for me. Its just wrong.
I am not quite sure why I feel so strongly on affairs. I have never cheated, or been cheated on. But morally, I think its so wrong. I always have since being a teenager. Dh feels the same. Early on in our relationship, one of our friends found out she had been cheated on. Dh and I agreed, we would never cheat. we would leave eachother, if we were that unhappy.
I don't want to be lied to or deceived. That would make the relationship meaningless to me.