to think this woman should have helped?

[notsolomon]

I went to an exercise class this morning. There are about 8 of us. A lady in her late sixties, started feeling ill..she was ashen, she felt dizzy and light headed and she was clammy to the touch (could just have been sweat cooling).

I lay her down, put coats under her feet to raise them up, and reassured her. Her left shoulder/jaw was hurting a bit. It was about 15 minutes before she felt well enough to sit up and she spent that time looking quite ill - eyes closed, heavy breathing, softly moaning.... I was considering calling for medical help but she remained lucid, able to speak and had a regular (if slightly odd) pulse, so I just sat with her. The others carried on dancing but were aware of the developing situation (one smallish room with 8 of us).

Luckily, the old lady recovered a lot by the end but I mentioned to another member of the class that I want to go on a first aid course as I never know quite what to do.

"Oh," said this other woman "I am a doctor actually, but I can't get involved outside the hospital because I am not insured. It is really awkward sometimes."

Either she must be wrong about her legal liability or the law is an ass. Surely a doctor doing her non negligent best to help someone outside a surgical setting because they happen to be there, would not be held personally liable for any untoward outcome? Was this doctor being overcautious (or callous) or was she right not to walk 4 paces over to check up on the ill woman? It just seems human to me.

This is all bizarre. The quotes below are from Pulse, the GP journal.

While there is no duty under UK law for a doctor to volunteer as a Good Samaritan, there is an ethical duty to help in an emergency. The GMC in Good Medical Practice says 'In an emergency you must offer anyone at risk the treatment you could reasonably be expected to provide'.

Although Good Samaritan acts may be common, being sued as a result of them is thankfully rarer than a first-class upgrade. The MDU (doctors insurance organisation) is not aware of any UK cases of doctors being sued after acting as a Good Samaritan.

Tragically what are you talking about? Have you read the thread?

There is no chance of having her "licence revoked"

For the love of all that is holy there is no problem with hcp's helping the public.

It's not "against the law"
It's not going to get you sued.
You don't need to be insured.

Any hcp who thinks otherwise is either plain stupid or or just telling you they believe it so you'll shut up about your boring vaginal discharge.

Not a lawyer.no. Just quoting the article and the link within it that isn't from an insurance company. Although harsh and grossly unfair I think you have to respect that people make decisions based on perceived risk to themselves and their loved ones and what might seem like a small risk to some will be seen as a risk too big to take to others. Like many things this will need a test case before anyone can say for certain that they will not be at risk of litigation.

She probably wasn't a doctor at all but an IRL troll....she sounds hilarious to me!

TragicallyHip and penguin73. People have presented you with information which patently contradicts what you are saying. Don't you understand that?

And as for you're damned if you do and and you're damned if you don't....NOOOOOOO.

I thought my info (from a reputable source) clearly stated that it was a possibility; the only thing I understand clearly is that it is a confusing and unclear area!!! (which would explain some people's reluctance to help)

There is only confusion if your incapable of rational thought, read the daily mail as your only source of information or trawl t'internet to find random pieces to back up an idiotic myth.

I heard a Dr talking about this on radio 2 last week-Dr Sarah Jarvis. She said she has responded to several "Is there a Dr in the house?" calls, and has stopped several times in the street to help.

I would report that exercise instructor if it was in a gym. She sounds a blooming lunatic. Who carries on exercising when a woman is lying ill on the floor?

None of those apply I'm afraid (though I did once wrap a broken glass in a copy of the Daily Mail, maybe that counts...)

Ok maybe not revoked but I guess it just depends on what has happened. I am saying this in general and not in Op's situation.

Tbh I haven't read the whole thread properly, just wanted to post what my good doctor friend had previously said. And btw she grew up in America and her mother is a doctor over there so this may have something to do with it.

You absolutely cannot get your licence revoked for helping at the scene of an accident. I think you've been watching too much daytime TV.

YANBU this woman should have helped, she has a moral obligation to. That excuse it just pathetic tbh, I am shocked, what if anything had happened to that lady than she has that on her mind for the rest of her life that she could have helped. She could have come over, checked her pulse, vital signs, and just have the reassuring presence that a Dr is there, and call an ambulance. You hear a lot that off duty Drs/Nurses have saved lives at accidents, surely any helping is better than none, and the fact is these are qualified professionals so should know what to do anyway.

TragicallyHip its the States that explains it all, the originators of suing.

I am a Midwife and also have to follow the NMC code of conduct, but even if I didnt I just couldnt walk past someone who needs help. And I havent. Would be surprised if after helping somebody they sued you but we were warned about it at Uni.

I am probably not as skilled as a nurse in performing first aid but know I can do basic life support until help arrives.

I am very suprised the class wasnt stopped, to carry on is very insensitive to the woman who should have been attended to, as well as not very dignified for her. Disgusted Astounded a Dr would just carry on doing star jumps & squats throughout all of this a class

Even when I am in the Supermarket and see a pregnant woman before passing her I have delivered her baby right there in that aisle - old habits die hard

except that ALL US states have Good Samaritan laws to prevent emergency care givers from being sued.

Ah so they tell you at uni...

I have better things to do with my time than watch daytime Tv thanks

Exactly Empty, if I were the Dr,I could not quite happily carried on with the class knowing there is a sick person there that needs help. The instructor should be trained in first aid and should have gone to help her, why the hell did she carry on with that class.

The doctor may have been a biochemist for all we know, the op may have been the best person between them.

Most drs and nurses haven't a scoobie about first aid, why should they? Paramedics, a&e staff yes otherwise not a scoobie.

Perhaps you should look up Tort Law instead then.

If you were a biochemist you wouldn't make a point of saying "I'm a doctor but I won't help". Which actually makes me think she was not actually a doctor at all.

Jesus H Christ on a fucking bike - how many times do people have to be told that you are NOT under threat of presecution for taking reasonable steps to prevent people from dying?!

Okay you will get sued if you jump up and down on a persons chest instead of applying proper CPR but what sort of trained medical professional would ignore someone who needed their care?

< AAAARRRGGGHHHHH! >

Most drs and nurses haven't a scoobie about first aid, why should they? Paramedics, a&e staff yes otherwise not a scoobie

Just gobsmacked at that FFS. Are you on a wind up?

I'm a support worker, non-qualified and not medically trained but even I have to regularly update my basic life support training as part of my job requirement.

I've skim read so sorry if I'm repeating anything.

Mum's a nurse. Always helps. I do believe in fate because she has come across many an unexpected situation ie: car crash, collapsed person in street.

She NEVER says she is a nurse though. As far as anybody else is concerned she is a passer-by. I have witnessed her take control of the situation and shout instructions and control the situation until the emergency services arrive. At this point she has relayed things to paramedics and they automatically know she is a nurse because of the terminology she uses - she will let the Em Services know she's a nurse but not the person/people she's dealing with.

This is because in a life or death situation if somebody turns up and says 'I'm a nurse' a layman can think they are going to be ok - the situation may not be that simple and (in mum's case) she isn't trained in emergency care (well, she is but it's 20 odd years ago since she did her training)

I've seen her in this situation 3 times, twice with quite bad crashes and once with a drunk collapsed in the street. I stood there, useless and panicking, she (and others) just sorted the situation. I have admiration for anyone who can stop AND help at an accident, I go to pieces!

So I've always understood that there is an ethical code that if medically trained you should offer assistance, but you don't have to declare you are a Dr/Nurse/Paramedic - this would save any litigation (although surely any judge would throw such a claim out on it's arse!!?)

The one time I was in a bad crash I was 6 months pg - of the 4 passers-by that stopped to help us only 1 was non-medical, all 3 of the helpers (off duty paramedic, anesthetist and GP!)told us they what they were. As it happened non of them dared touch me as I was pg! (and to top it all, it happened outside the town ambulance station but they still had to dial 999 to get assistance )

Cannot understand why the hell anyone would identify themselves as a dr/nurse whatever in any situation like this.

Primarily because of barking expectations of the general public.