to really hate going to toddler groups?

[MogadoredMemoo]

Am I some kind of freak because I can't stand them?

I Find it really hard to strike up conversations with other parents. I get all PFB over DD when anyone else's child snatches or pushes (even though she is actually my precious third born). The noise levels hurt my ears and I'm always the one who ends up sat doing the gluing with 10 other kids whilst their parents sit in the corner talking and drinking tea. By the time I get home I feel like I need 5 valium and a bottle of whisky

That sounds nicely structured but informal, YorkshireCrockpot. Makes it easier to start conversations when making a "messy creation" or sharing birthday cake than when you just go in and it's a free-for-all.

What would you like to see at toddler group?
What would help you to feel more welcome?

Just somebody saying hello would be nice. I've smiled at people only to be met by an icy stare.

mogadored I feel for you, I found them hard at first but now I LOVE them.

I'm an introvert hidden in the body of a rapacious extrovert so I was too shy and was exhausted by the whole palaver. With ds1.

This time with ds2 I'm born again but you definitely get out what you put in ime. Actually you get more than you put in generally.

Some things which might help you to become a toddler group convert:

Shop around and make an effort to go to a few several times.
Find someone anyone to meet there if possible, can make it more fun.
Ask where the good ones are.
I found one in a church hall dominated by childminders who terrified me.
I now realise that childminders are fountains of an essence of wisdom and know Everything about Most Things.
Become shamelessly friendly and chatty.
I made all my best mama friends out of one nice mother run toddler group.
Help set up/tidy up. This itself is one of the best ways to really connect with the other women.
Keep going to groups if you can bear to because your child will end up loving it (very often)
My dd adores her three groups, one run by mums, very NCT but lovely big clean hall and lots of nice toys and her friend goes.
There's another messy play one run by her childminder which is fabulous because they get MASSIVELY messy and it's not in your house!
Another is a music group and she loves that woman so much.

I think if you persist you might be surprised.

One group was run by a slightly snooty bunch of women who were basically all fairly shy. I've forced myself to just keep smiling keep saying complimentary things abou their kids, it's not hard to
do honestly, most kids have something fabulous about them, all hearts melt AT ONCE in the face of a stranger saying "God your daughter's hair is just beautiful, it's amazing!" The mother of that child will basically deeply wish you well for all time even subconsciously.
I think young kids benefit hugely from groups, they like their Own Kind. I think dd is getting more stimulation than ds and it suits her so well.
I know groups have their downsides but shop around, it's worth shlepping a bit if a group is good and three trips will start to tell you if it is only minging or it just needs time and commitment.

Easy to say, but if you're confidence has been knocked by a group of snooty women who either blank you or talk over/around you, and don't even acknowledge your dc when they go up to you with something for your baby, then why on earth would you put yourself through it on the off-chance you might meet someone pleasant?

Life's too short.

This rude, stand-offish stuff is so needless. I had it at a local toddler group with my youngest. It was a real put off, the leaders were the worst! Such a shame as 5 years ago I actually ran it with a friend and it was so much better. Well it was!

Tanith - a couple of ideas that might make a group more inclusive for new / shy mums:

• name stickers for parent and child. Just leave a roll of blank stickers at the sign-in. I know some people don't like them but I often feel a bit too overwhelmed to remember names and then I'm too to say hello next time when I've forgotten

• a rota for the little tasks: tea-making, snack distribution etc. It puts different parents together and being focused on a joint task helps people get to know each other.

• as someone else has mentioned, keep an eye out for new mums or ones that aren't mingling and as the leader, try and introduce them to people. If a mum seems stand-offish, it might be that she's shy, or even struggling with PND and just wants someone to make that first contact.

name stickers are a great idea. One of the groups I go to takes this to a higher level - you have the person's name in big letters, and their child/parent in smaller letters underneath, so people can instantly match you up with your child/ren. This is really helpful when a child falls over/bashes another/does something heinous - you can take it back to the right mother, or call her over by name.

New people should always be welcomed - the first playgroup here I went to, there was a bitchy clique of women there, including the treasurer. Luckily for me there were also 2 other newbies, so we sat together and chatted, left the clique to themselves. The next week, the Co-ordinator came back and she was really nice and chatty. Then the next year (our year starts in Feb) the clique had all buggered off - I think they formed their own or something - and we were a tiny group for a while. But now we're back up to about 15 mums, on and off, I'm even one of the committee, and we always make sure that we say hello to new people and try to integrate them.

YANBU!

I can't stand them, however, I take DS (1) to a local one on a Wednesday and sometimes messy play on a Thursday.

I feel like I almost owe it to him as he loves to play with other children.

We're not going today though as I had that winter vomiting virus yesterday and still feel quite yucky :(

I have found children's centres better. People seem to be nicer there.

I think that's where I'll stick to.

DS loves them as well.

I love mine! It was one of the very few places I felt welcome when ds was a truly terrible two. I think it was actually aimed at children with behaviour problems but I still go now with dd who is a good little thing and the group seems to have transformed into a group of sweet little girls. All the mothers are welcoming and inclusive and I have a lot of respect for them. They organise occasional dinners which everyone is invited to. Like thumbwitch, I'm in Australia, so I don't know if that makes a difference. It might in that we have a nice outdoor area, so less noise.

I don't recognise this talk about toddler groups being dominated by icy cliques.

I go to a few different ones with ds, and here, they're pretty friendly & laidback. I do sometimes get a bit bored by talking about sleep patterns etc. but I've made some very good friends at toddler groups.

Also, I don't think you should take it personally if someone doesn't talk to you on your first visit. I always try to talk to newbies on a first visit - but because I don't always go to toddler group every week, I don't always know who's new. Remember it's very very very unlikely to be a collective decision NOT to talk to someone - just people being busy and not sure who's new. Now I agree if this goes on week after week, there's a problem but give it more than one chance, is my advice.

Some toddler groups can be cliquey, can ignore new people, be rude and standoffish etc. I've gone along to some of these, and taken a book and just got on with letting my kids play (but still keeping an eye on them), whilst getting on with a book. Even if I wasn't getting friendships out of the group, I was getting something, and my kids were enjoying it too. They are great places for messy play that wouldn't happen at home, and play with big equipment and spaces that aren't available elsewhere indoors.

Other groups were perfectly friendly, cheap, and made sure people didn't feel left out. They are a lifeline to many mums. I feel that some people reading this thread will be put off trying to join groups because of others' bad experiences, and that's not a good thing. There will always be some groups with cliquey issues; kids (including our own) will always have snotty noses and occasionally headlice.

I've run a group for the last fifteen years. We have name-badges and rotas and an open friendly atmosphere which has been proven by official report, and are of a middling size which means the noise level and clamour never gets too much. The only possible issue I find is that the group leaders (myself included) are usually so busy "doing stuff" - at the craft table, and the signing-in, plus organising coffee/juice etc, that it is easy to lose that time to sit and chat to new mums personally, or just catch up with those mums who already attend. I do usually make sure I chat to new mums when they arrive and introduce them to or invite them to sit with someone with similar aged children.

Have you done the school-run yet?

longstocking totally agree with that advice. The compliment thing really works (I do that all the time)

I never thought I would do them, and the first time I dragged myself to one ds was about one.
I was desperate for somewhere to take ds as I had no friends with small children and was really isolated.

When i walked in I thought "Christ I didn't know there was a uniform!" as every single woman was blonde and wearing Gap jeans. (I was in black leggings and a leopard print T-shirt!)

The hall was a seething mass of screaming kids and ds toddled off amidst this sea while Stepford Wives One and Two grilled me about myself. All their husbands worked in IT (and there were no men at this group) and I have never felt more out of place anywhere, ever.

However, we moved to a different area, I tried a few different one and found a great on in a community centre-really mixed, calm, relaxed and friendly.

I made a few good friends there, and had people to hang out with on non work days which has been a godsend during the winter months.

My advice is-try different one. Oh, and don't get too paranoid about "stuck up mums".

I don't get it either when, for eg, other mums from the Nursery ignore me when I say Hi, but I see it as their problem, and am glad I am a friendly open person. Feel pity not anxiety!

Wow! They don't even talk to you???
I try to avoid the patronising "Everyone, this is Jane and she's brought Emma to play and have fun with us today!" approach, but I do try to get round everyone for a quick chat, not just the new people.

Thanks for the suggestions - I really like the name labels idea. Not sure if the rota would work as DH and I tend to do most of it. I'll see what they all think. For all I know, they could be desperate to get away from their kids help out.

I found it a mixed experience, but at least we live in an area with quite a choice of groups. I used to do a couple a week with DS as it filled the mornings - some were great, some were gruesome, some changed over the years. The one I only went to once was just completely wrong for DS and I, and I have sneaking suspicions that being recommended it was a piece of mischief on the part of HV as it was full of 15 year old single mothers (I am a single mum but in my 40s) doing remedial raffia work at one end while the DC were ordered about by a playleader at the other. SOme were huge with constantly-changing attendees so no sooner had you learned someone's name than they vanished for 6 weeks.
Several were annoyingly Christian with not-so-subtle presure to come to church (this annoyed me not just as a rationalist, but in our very multi-cultural area I thought it was a bit uninclusive of a lot of the mums who were actually being recommended to these groups).
The good ones were a chance for DS to do all that messy crap with glitter and glue somewhere I wouldn;'t have to clear it up, and he did make some friends (though it was always the case that the kids he liked had wierd families, and the parents I liked had kids who were much younger/older than DS).

Can I also recommend you choose one with an outdoor area or garden? It's a good place to escape all that noise if it's getting to you.

So glad to have found this thread! I thought it was just me (who hugely disliked toddler groups, that is)

I hated them too so only went a couple of times then gave up. I was lucky enough to have enough simiar age children in my wider family for them to get together for a play on a regular basis instead.

YANBU. I found them dull, dull, dull and the time would move soooo slowly for me while there. I found the forced small talk even more excrutiating as I don't drink tea or cofee or even eat biscuits.

I don't think DD loved it as such, sure she'd happily play there (though never with other children) but she always needed me around and she would just as happily play at home and didn't seem to miss it when we didn't go.

I'm glad I stuck with it though, cos I like it that that box is ticked .

I love them, as other people have said, for SAHMs who would be otherwise isolated (I live in a very rural area, so no chance to be swanning round art galleries, even some basic clothes shops are an hour round trip), they can be brilliant. I've certainly been kept sane by the ones I go to, I have no desire to sit around the house all day and DS feels the same!

My first post on Mumsnet was AIBU to dislike toddler groups, (Ijumped in with both feet) that was three years ago.

It was for all the reasons people suggest.

Down the line I have met a lot of people, feel that this area is now my home, nod to them in the supermarket type thing. Discovered a really, really good circle of friends which has been a great support enjoying the good times etc.

I never did settle down to going week in week out but as your face becomes more familier, people approached me more when I was walking the dog, at the park, swimming, library, etc.

Two of the awful women turned out to have PND but in my sleep deprived, toddler tantrum hell I thought it was all about me actually they were barely coping.

One woman was horrible and from local gossip has always been like that and I shall probably be avoiding her when queuing up for my pension.

I also found that as the DDs changed the groups became better or worse. Sometimes I needed some company, sometimes their tittle tattle over which supermarket drovw me nuts. Naptimes changed, DD started school and DD2 missed her so much she need to feel that stuff was happened for her.

So main thing is
Don't write them all play groups off for ever. The groups change as kids start school & get nursey funding.
Your needs change.
So moan on Mumsnet but no public flouncing

When I had DS, new area, knew no one, I made such an effort, and tried to go to something every day. It was indeed HELL, for all the reasons described. I shudder just thinking about it.

I remember walking home from one where not a soul had spoken to me and sobbing me heart out. How I didn't have PND I just do not know. I was isolated, couldn't drive, and it was awful!

However we moved to a different area and despite my previous experience, went to as many groups as I could. It's like night and day- I've made so many friends despite being in a similar situation (still don't drive, still live rurally, still miles from family and old friends).

Keep trying, try a different village, it can be different.