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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to be considering ending a relationship over a toy kitchen?

238 replies

lifeissweet · 27/02/2011 21:30

I have a 5yr old DS, Boyfriend has a soon to be 2yr old DS. We were talking today about present ideas for his DS's second birthday. I told him that, at around that age, I had bought my DS a toy kitchen, which he loved. He liked opening and closing the doors and playing with the little pots and pans.

BF screwed up his face and said 'that's a bit gay isn't it?' I was a little shocked and just said 'WHAT?' so he said 'well it's more of a girl present. Men just aren't happy with buying things for their sons like that. I mean it's just wrong isn't it? I mean, I hated it when his mother bought him a little dust pan and brush, He loves it, but I won't let him play with it.'

I had to leave the room for a minute to calm down.

I am, admittedly a bit of a feminist and think that this diplays ignorance and a completely worryingly misogynistic (not to mention homophobic) attitude which I find disturbing. As it is such a massive attack on my core values we had a bit of a row. I told him I found his opinions repugnant and sent him home saying I needed to think about our relationship.

Am I right to be so worried about this or am I, as he says, completely over reacting?

I have been on MN for several years and this is my first ever AIBU. Please be gentle...

OP posts:
amiheartless · 28/02/2011 08:52

*problem

CheerfulYank · 28/02/2011 08:55

What Cory said. All kids need running and jumping and dramatic play!

cory · 28/02/2011 08:56

I would have a serious talk with your dp. Explain to him that this is very important to you. That you need him to reassure you that he does think men and women should be equal and that both boys and girls should be brought up in that spirit. And then see what he answers.

mrsgetonwithit · 28/02/2011 08:59

Show him this thread I bet he has even forgot he said it as it is such a throwaway comment.

He will probably dump you cause the poor guy will be afraid whatever he says will be turned into a drama.

Eglu · 28/02/2011 09:06

YANBU at all. I would hope that the majority of modern men are fine with boys playing with whatever they want.

I think it is possibly a sign of a deeper attitude towards women and I would be thinking very carefully about the future of the relationship.

bubblebabeuk · 28/02/2011 09:10

I looooooooovvvvvvvvvveeeeee derangedsybyl's idea, Thats what I would do lol

iscream · 28/02/2011 09:13

I would end the relationship, as he is sexist and homophobic. I cannot stand it when people call something "gay". In this day and age there is no excuse for such backward narrow mindedness.

AmazingBouncingFerret · 28/02/2011 09:16

Blokes like this fall into 2 camps.
The ones that will annoyingly say those sort of comments and sneakily roll their eyes whilst you purchase kitchen/doll/hoover. (seen many of those over the years and I enjoy calling them out on it, it makes them blush!)

Or there is the ones that will not allow their child to play with any sort of toy that they think is gender specific. They are the scary ones. I once pointed out to a man that was leaning on his pushchair and telling his DS off for wanting to play with the toy pushchair... He just did not get the irony.

If your DP falls into the latter category and his attitude has to come against your feminist beliefs for the rest of your lives then I predict many an arguement!

ErnestTheBavarian · 28/02/2011 09:17

I disagree totally with the notion that we shouldn't allow boys to play roughly. why shouldn't we allow boys (or girls if they want) to play roughly? My boys love rough and tumble with their dad and each other. They are naturally physical. They learn boundaries and where to stop. It gives them the contact they need. Plenty of studies on this theme.
findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb1439/is_1_15/ai_n28815949/
www.babyzone.com/toddler_preschooler_fun/Play/article/boys-need-rough-tumble-play
aplaceofourown.org/question_detail.php?id=185

There is loads of evidence, concern and studies about the feminisation of boys and primary education. Disingenuous and a little short sighted to dismiss it all as a 'load of bollocks' Hmm

For example

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/3641881/Feminising-education-is-of-benefit-to-no-one.html
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6253204.stm?lsm
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-432947/Stop-feminising-schools--boys-suffering.html (that's in the mail, sorry!)

Have read lots of similar arguments and studies in Germany too.

I wouldn't have a problem with getting a boy a kitchen. I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone did. But I don't think I'd list it up there as reasons to end a relationship. Strangely I reckon dh wouldn't feel comfortable about it, but I'd more than likely stick to my guns and take the mickey. Hardly makes him a neanderthal. When it comes to adults he has very 'feminist' views.

babybythesea · 28/02/2011 09:18

I don't think my DH would want any son we had (currently we have one dd) to have a toy kitchen. Nothing to do with whether it will result in a ds being gay, or any concerns over his son playing with one. Instead, DH will be playing with all the remote control cars, helicopters, trains etc etc that he plans to buy 'for the boy'. I don't think he'd buy a kitchen because he wouldn't want to play with it himself and he seems to think that having a son is the perfect excuse to live out his own childhood fantasies with all the toys he either had and didn't appreciate (for that read broke - he doesn't seem to have been the gentlest child around!) or was never allowed to own (for the above reason!). In fact I doubt our son would be allowed to play with most of 'his' toys, as Daddy will be too busy with them. So come to think of it, maybe he would get a ds a kitchen - to keep him busy and out of Daddy's way while Daddy plays with the remote control helicopter....
Although as we already have a dd there will be plenty of 'girls' toys around anyway.

babybythesea · 28/02/2011 09:23

PS - In the interests of equality, I have pointed out that our dd would probably love a remote control car, and we've been looking at garages (we already have some push-along cars) but she's only just turned 2 so it's the first time that we've really given it much thought as this is the first time that we can guarantee the toy won't be eaten rather than played with!! Besides, daddy is so much enjoying having to kiss dolly every few minutes every evening and I wouldn't want to deprive him of this by distracing her with a car...!!

Original poster
lifeissweet · 28/02/2011 09:23

OK - Maybe I didn't express that very well, Ernest. I think what I meant is that ALL children should be allowed to play in the way that will help them to learn and grow. For some girls this might be with a lot of rough and tumble, with some boys it might be playing with dolls or kitchens. I believe that all children should be open to all experiences and not made to think that any activity is not meant for them because of their gender.

I have never said that boys should not be allowed to play actively, I just don't think that should be exclusively a concern about boys, but about children in general.

My DS, by the way, is a normal, active, happy little boy, He swims regularly, goes rock climbing and sailing with his father and plays at home with a range of toys including a push chair and a kitchen. I do not believe I am 'feminising' him.

OP posts:
mrsgetonwithit · 28/02/2011 09:25

So are going going to dump him?

TheSmallPrint · 28/02/2011 09:27

I bought DS (3.5) a pink buggy on Saturday knowing that DH wouldn't be impressed (having mild toys for boys issues) so I told him I would take it back if DS didn't like it. DS was over the moon and has been playing with it ever since. His 7 yo brother keeps stealing it too. They have a red ELC kitchen which he's had since he was 2 as well, they love playing restaurants. Along side this they have lego star wars and ben 10 aliens as their favourite things.

They are toys which encourage imagination and role play - what is wrong with that.

nenevomito · 28/02/2011 09:28

How strange.

DS had a toy dustpan and brush and a toy kitchen and a toy washing machine long before he had any cars or anything more 'manly'. DH didn't care and his Granddad bought him a toy hoover and mop to go with it.

I can't say whether or not its worth ending a relationship over as only you know your partner, but his attitude is like something out of the 1950s and he does sound like a bit of a nobber. Ask if he'd call Gordon Ramsay "Gay" to his face for working in a kitchen.

Oh and I really hate it when men use gay as an insult like that

cory · 28/02/2011 09:32

Ernest, nobody on this thread is saying that we shouldn't allow boys to play roughly. What a lot of us do think, though, is that a balanced childhood should involve plenty of opportunity for both rough play and more nurturing play. The problem with modern education is not that it "feminises" the boys; it's that it "feminises" everybody. My dd used to hate all the safety restrictions in the playground- having seen another culture, it made her feel like she was in a cage.

Original poster
lifeissweet · 28/02/2011 09:33

I don't know, Mrsgetonwithit. We are going shopping for this present later today, so I will gently (and calmly) explore his attitudes a little more to see whether he is misguided and will listen, or has entrenched views about women and homosexual people that I can't live with. No knee-jerk reaction, just a bit more probing, I think.

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 28/02/2011 09:38

Any chance some of you could stop using "feminising" as a dirty word?

OP, does your P do much around the house himself?

MooMooFarm · 28/02/2011 09:40

Sorry I've not read your whole thread but I would say you need to look at the whole relationship rather than this one remark in isolation. If he is fantastic in every other way, then it is definitely worth talking it through with him and telling how offensive you found his remark.

If he really is homophobic then it would be a deal breaker for me, but it could be that he just needs 'educating' on what is acceptable and what is not. Are his parents very old fashioned in their views? Maybe he's been brought up thinking 'gay' is an ok word to use in a derogatory way, without thinking it through.

exoticfruits · 28/02/2011 09:43

I don't know why anyone is trying to censor a DCs toys or thinking that playing with one thing stops them playing with another!
How on earth does playing with a kitchen equate with not running around in the woods and climbing trees? Why should one be for girls and one for boys?
Let DCs have a free range of toys and they will play with those that catch their attention and have good play value for them. A 2 yr old DC doesn't realise that people are going to read all sorts of things into a simple choice of toy and that he/she is supposed to be PC over it!!!!

Original poster
lifeissweet · 28/02/2011 09:48

Aye robot, I actually don't know how much he does around the house as I don't live with him. I get the feeling he is quite hands-on with his DS, but he only sees him once or twice a week, and always on his own, so he doesn't have a choice. I do know that he can't cook, though, which is worrying. I found myself saying: 'how did you get to the age of 30 without knowing how to cook?!' and I was genuinely baffled and irritated by it. If I'm honest, I think I have been concerned about little things like this for a while and have been ignoring it. I don't know that I can for much longer, though.

I don't actually think he is homophobic, just a bit ignorant and maybe that can be dealt with. I think what I really feel is that I'd rather be with someone who shares my values without having to be persuaded, if that makes sense? I think I may be talking myself into a decision here..

OP posts:
cory · 28/02/2011 09:52

I didn't put feminising in quotation marks because I consider it a dirty word; I did it to indicate that I don't actually consider it accurate. What Ernest and others seem to worry about is a rather unhealthy emphasis on sedentary and safe activities for young children- I don't think that should be seen as typical of women or something that only women promote.

Original poster
lifeissweet · 28/02/2011 09:54

Cory - I used the quotation marks for exactly the same reason.

OP posts:
AyeRobot · 28/02/2011 09:54

Totally agree, lifeissweet. That he can't cook and thinks little boys shouldn't play with toy kitchens would tell me all I need to know about his thoughts on male/female roles. In that scenario, I would be oot, perhaps after a little questioning to see how entrenched his beliefs were.

AyeRobot · 28/02/2011 09:57

Sorry, cory, I wasn't singling you out. I agree with you. It was some of the earlier posts that seemed to be implying that feminising was a dirty word. Apologies.