...to be considering ending a relationship over a toy kitchen?

[lifeissweet]

I have a 5yr old DS, Boyfriend has a soon to be 2yr old DS. We were talking today about present ideas for his DS's second birthday. I told him that, at around that age, I had bought my DS a toy kitchen, which he loved. He liked opening and closing the doors and playing with the little pots and pans.

BF screwed up his face and said 'that's a bit gay isn't it?' I was a little shocked and just said 'WHAT?' so he said 'well it's more of a girl present. Men just aren't happy with buying things for their sons like that. I mean it's just wrong isn't it? I mean, I hated it when his mother bought him a little dust pan and brush, He loves it, but I won't let him play with it.'

I had to leave the room for a minute to calm down.

I am, admittedly a bit of a feminist and think that this diplays ignorance and a completely worryingly misogynistic (not to mention homophobic) attitude which I find disturbing. As it is such a massive attack on my core values we had a bit of a row. I told him I found his opinions repugnant and sent him home saying I needed to think about our relationship.

Am I right to be so worried about this or am I, as he says, completely over reacting?

I have been on MN for several years and this is my first ever AIBU. Please be gentle...

I hear what you're saying cleverhans and thanks for your input. I do agree that I may have handled it better, but actually I was in shock. I have honestly never heard an attitude like it and I felt attacked, as a woman, because of the implication of that statement - I immediately worried about how those attitudes might extend to how he views me, my role and my worth.

I sent him away exactly because I needed to clear my own head about it before I could have that reasoned discussion which you suggest would have been better. I did try to articulate exactly why I reacted the way I did, but I needed some time to get my thoughts into order before I did that. I was actually really, really upset.

I have a friend whose husband wasn't comforatable with the thought of their ds having toys such as a buggy, but he's not really a macho man at all and I guess it's just the way he was brought up.

My dh isn't into gender-specific toys and we got our ds a kitchen when he was 3, which he loved. Our dd, who is 3 years older, had never shown any interest in cooking so we didn't ever consider buying her one. The thing about his was that it had a tank that you could fill with water and when you pressed the tap actual water came out, which he loved, and this gadgety bit made it perfect for him. He is now nearly 12 and still into cooking (and gadgets), and he made a mean butternut squash and broccoli risotto with parmesan shavings the other night, adapting a recipe from Sam Stern.

So my advice would be do get the kitchen as it could lead to great things in the kitchen when he's older(!) and do work on your dp to see if it's a bit of a blip, as with my friend's dh.

Lifeissweet: "We haven't been together very long and I really like him, but with one simple comment he made me suddenly see him in a different light."

Not suggesting at all that you straightaway kick him in to touch for this. Maybe he just hasn't thought through various things in ways that you simply take for granted? So give him a chance. But your antennae will be up now, so if you do find him reacting to various issues in ways that you don't agree with - well, only you will know whether or not you can live with those reactions in a partner.

On the other hand, maybe you can open his mind to different ways of thinking?

YANBU! That is unacceptable, and he needs that srilled into his brain! It's a horrible slight on you, too.

It would perhaps have been ok if he'd just said the idea weirded him out a little bit, but then listened to you explain.

Do you really want this man's ugly values passed down to your little boys? Do you want them to grow up assuming women are their kitchen wenches, and sneering abuse at gay people or men who prepare food themselves?

This man needs to show you that he's re-assessed his views on the subject, or there's no way he's qualified to fit into 21st Century society, let alone a relationship with a you and your children

*drilled.

sorry!

YANBU. It's called pretend play. Children like to play at doing stuff their parents do. Presumably BF thinks any men who do their own cooking or housework are gay too.

When DS1 was little, he went through a phase of not going anywhere without his doll and buggy. One day EXH's DB came to take DS1 to theirs for the day to play with their DC and kicked up a similar storm, refusing to take the buggy, asking "What are you doing, trying to turn him into a poof?" I swiftly reiterated that I'd seen him pushing their DCs pushchair enough times so I was surprised at such a reaction as he must clearly be homosexual himself in that case. He looked a bit stunned than put the buggy in the car without further comment. :)

DS1 also had a kitchen which he played with loads, as did DS2 once he arrived, and a toy hoover. DD has a tool kit and is obsessed with brio, cars and Thomas.

I'd have reacted the same as you, OP.

No, you are right to want to appraise the relationship.

First of all, you each have a ds. Would this man have a problem if either of them were gay?

Secondly, he objects to his son playing with toy kitchens and dustpans and brushes. Now, not thinking to buy your son a dustpan and brush is one thing but actively forbidding him from playing with one he already has is quite another! Supposing he were to move in, would he refuse to do any cooking or cleaning himself? Forbid his son from taking up Home Economics in secondary school? Have the boys do nothing while you run around ragged cleaning up after everyone?

Look, I don't know if you should break up over this, but I would absolutely sound him out on these issues.

Oh, does my last post sound like I'm homophobic too? I'm not.

I'm quite surprised at the number of people who think you should ditch a guy you otherwise like over his attitude on one thing, which may just be a knee-jerk reaction to the way he himself was brought up. It doesn't necessarily mean he is intrinsically misogynistic just because he made one remark.

As I said, my DH has some "knee-jerk" reactions to things like this which, if called on them, admits they are illogical and is prepared to rethink. He certainly doesn't assume I am a "kitchen wench" or sneer abuse at gay people . He happily cooks, cleans and does other chores, so he isn't a complete bigot at heart! Give the guy a chance!

Not remotely, Eden, don't worry!

My suggestion is that you should go on kitchen strike and force him to make his own meals and then ask him if he feels remotely gay!

My sons all played with kitchens as children and none of them are gay(not that it would have bothered me one iota if they were/are)

The majority of successful chefs are male and I would have been delighted if any of mine had been gifted in the kitchen department

You should encourage your son in his domesticity!

YANBU - even if it is 'just the way he was brought up'...
Whether you split depends on other things he does - but remember you are very unlikely to change him. If it is ingrained you might have to spend your whole relationship re-educating him...which could get draining.
My DP had a rocky start in life - his mum looked after him and his 3 brother (all less than 2 yrs apart). When his father came home from work DP had to get his slippers for him and put them on, his father then expected to be fed before he went out drinking with his friends every night... most shocking is that every so often he would go into the bedroom and tell DP's mum to come - she would go in, close the door and then come out again 15 mins or so later...
DP and I have lots of problems...a bit of a battle... mainly because DP instinctively thinks that all the childcare and cleaning are my job - he does things if pushed but thinks I should be grateful...
BTW not worried about my DDs though - I do all the DIY (I own the power tools!) etc and car maintenance etc etc - DP is a bit useless at stuff like that - but he is a chef so he ends up cooking while I tile around the bath!

Well, he's casually homophobic, into gender essentialism to the point where he's stopping his son from playing with 'girl' toys, believes that housework and cooking are women's work, regularly says things that offend you and when you call him on it he tells you he was only joking and you should lighten up, thus dismissing your perspective as less valid than his.

That last bit doesn't sound like he's just unthinking and willing to be educated, to me. It sounds like he's convinced that he's right and you're just a humourless feminist who overreacts to things.

I'd get rid.

My son then 2, now aged 24, used to love to go shopping while wheeling his sister's doll's pram. I used to get all sorts of adverse comments. He now designs car engines and lives with his long-term gf. I was a complete tomboy but now take a lot of care with my appearance (am 50+ and definitely crumbling). You are right about his dinosaur attitudes but getting rid of the guy is a bit drastic. Will think about it later while I am drilling holes in the wall, before, that is, I climb up a high ladder and prune those pesky Leylandii. Wonder if he objects to you doing DIY etc? Or does he expect you to sit around wearing pink chiffon and being utterly girly

My friends DH (FDH) is exactly like this sadly, his DS1 is 3 and I have him every monday, wednesday and friday. FDH made me get blue plastic plates, and cups for his son because using the other ones was a bit gay, I've got a rainbow set, so green, pink purple, yellow, each items a different colour. but he was allowed to choose here, so he could have chosen the pink one you see [roll eyes]

I tried to talk some reason into him, but his DS is a boy and is only permitted to do boy things. best not tell him his DS spends most of his time here, looking after my DD2 baby doll, whilst wearing pink fairy wings, and yes I've got a toy kitchen, and he absolutely loves it as does my DD2 17 months.

My friend puts up with it because they have been married for 10 years, however if she'd had any idea he would be so rediculous over the boys must play with boy stuff, down to plates and cups for god sake, she wouldn't of married him.

apparently this tendancy only appeared really when she had there DS, there DD was allowed to dress like a boy, play with boy toys, so its a very one way stereotypical thing with men for some reason.

Not quite sure why those same dads don't feel girls playing with train sets make them into lesbians, or is that just fine the only issue is boys ending up gay.

You know what my younger brother is gay, but he was the most manly bloke ever growing up, rugby, couldn't iron, tons of girlfriends, met his current partner (7 yrs together) and worked out what it was he really wanted :) just glad he's happy

It's because they feel that men are superior, so girls acting like boys is fine, but you wouldn't want a boy acting like an icky awful girl, ew.

Blue plates. FFS how utterly pathetic.

btw I think this relationship might be a touch doomed OP, tortoiseonthehalfshell pretty much hit the nail on the head.

But also what if you had any further children with him, would a boy be subjected to no non-male toys but worse what if you had a girl, would further education be dismissed for her as her place would appear to be (according to your BF) cleaning, cooking and having babies??? would she have to play with kitchens and cleaning stuff because thats girls stuff???

I think you have to decide what is the stronger emotion, anger at his ignorance versus how good is he in bed...then decide.

Yanbu

I have managed to educate my dh on a number of things and introduced his to things he hadn't seen/heard before, well I was a ballsy 17 year old when we met!

Have to say if I were to met someone now I'm in my mid 30's with a child, there are things that would not be accetable tome.

The fact he would actually stop his son playing with a dust pan and brush when he likes it is shocking. Maybe this could be the situation that decides if it is worth investing more in the relationship. If he gets the kitchen stay if he doesn't dump him.

Just one more point, does ge go to nursery/playschool? He could the helpers what he likes playing with, does he like playing with the kitchen? The answer is almost certainly going to be yes.

"I can change him"

No. You can't. And nor should you want to.

YANBU. It is not about a kitchen. It is about your core beliefs and his not being compatible. At this early stage. You will forever be at loggerheads over this kind of thing.

Especially with you having a girl who has lots of pretty sparkly pink things to want to use. My DS plays with DDs pink dolls house more than she does. There would be world war III in this house if I even attempted to stop him. And as for the toy kitchen and food. Well lets say it is the only way I can do anything in the kitchen.

It's ridiculous. My SIL (I've posted about her many times) and thick as a brick BIL got a toy kitchen for their DD, but then their DS "liked playing with it too much" so they gave it away. I seriously did a face and kept it on for the better part of ten minutes. I mean, FFS! I won't even get into BILs moronic comments over my signing my DS up for gymnastics...

If he seems sexist, homophobic, etc in general I'd say toss him. If you feel you can bring him up to speed with the rest of the world, give it a try.

This is sooo NOT about a toy kitchen, this is about your boyfriend being a homophobic ignorant twat! I think you already know whether or not to end it, and you know whether or not these views are his true ones.

I feel sorry for his DS. And his DD if he ever has one. :(

His attitude is ridiculous and I agree it is repugnant but talk to him. Hopefully he will change his attitude as not letting his son play with a dustpan and brush is so so stupid! Let us know how you get on

I haven't got time to read all the replies yet so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what others have said.
How long have you been with this chap?
The gay comment sounds immature rather than him being homphobic. My 11 year old remarked that DSs (age 1) buckle shoes were a bit gay. It's the sort of things 11 year old who have just started secondary school say - before they've learnt that it's innapropriate.

I'd ask him whether he really is concerned that our DS will grow up gay if he plays with traditional girls toys. Does he REALLY think that?! I doubt it.
I think he's confusing gay with sissy.

If your DS is inclined to play with more girl oriented toys then he'll find a way, toy kitchen or not.

Tell him that actually you'd like to raise children who can cook and use a dust pan and brush regardless of gender. Does he think that's strange?

If he really believes the gay thing and genuinely has a problem with play kitchens etc then yes, I do think you have a more serious issue ie will he "let" your children do cookery (food technology) at school?

So boys are not allowed to fight, play fight, play football in the street, do anything at all 'rough' in the playground, and are now having girl's toys forced upon them before they're even able to ask for a toy gun. Which they wouldn't be allowed.

Well I hope you're happy, women. You've finally managed to turn all your disgusting little boys into preening little girls. Congratulations.