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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think SHE should pay for smashing up MY car

407 replies

thequeensspeech · 25/02/2011 10:46

Mother in law is staying with us for 2 weeks, normally lives in Spain. Yesterday she asked if she could borrow mine and DH's car. She only has third party insurance. Was not happy about her driving the car. She reassured me that she has 40 years driving experience, no accidents ever, was only going to nip to the shops. Reluctantly I handed over the keys. Of course, sods law she has a crash. Garage now estimating £2000 to repair.

She has checked with her insurance company and obviously they are not going to pay out. She has made it quite clear that she will not be paying for my car to be fixed and ultimately DH and I have to somehow, scrape the money together. Not great when I'm being made redundant in June.

Yes I know it was my fault for giving her the keys to the car but surely to god she should at least volunteer to pay half the costs.

Disclaimer: she and her DH are well off, have house in Spain and 3 houses in the UK 2 of which they rent out and the other they live in for 3 months of the year.

OP posts:
TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 25/02/2011 11:55

BristolJim - it appears from my googling extensive research that letting someone drive your car uninsured is a 'strict liability' thing - it's not a defence that you thought they were insured.

ZZZenAgain · 25/02/2011 11:56

has she explained how this crash happened and does she have the details of th other car/driver if she collided with another car?

If she has a credit card on her (presumably she does?), I think you should get down to the garage and have repair costs charged to her account and tell her that you will reimburse her if the insurance covers anything (which it won't).. Howver, I don't see a way of forcing her to do this

Capreece · 25/02/2011 11:57

You really really need to find out if she means she has third party insurance on her own car, which means she was driving uninsured (and therefore illegally) in yours. Or if she has comprehensive cover on her own car which means she has third poarty cover driving anybody else's car.

Either way you should be OK legally, as she misled you with regards to her insurance telling you that she was insured third party. She, however, might be in very deep doggy do do

MmeLindt · 25/02/2011 11:57

re the driving license - she may have a Spanish licence. I had to hand in my German one in Switzerland, but the Swiss one covers me so it is fine.

She needs to pay though. It is absolutely unreasonable of her not to.

Original poster
thequeensspeech · 25/02/2011 11:58

This morning she left the house at 9ish and hasn't been back since so god knows where she's gone. I think DH and I were in such shock when we got home from work and saw the damage that we didn't spend as long as we should have interrogating her for information. All she said was that it wasn't her fault, that she wouldn't be paying because I could just pretend that I was driving and claim on my insurance. She seemed to think that was the matter over, done with.

OP posts:
LessNarkyPuffin · 25/02/2011 11:58

Driving without insurance is an unqualified offense - ignorance is no excuse. If she doesn't have valid third party she's guilty of that.

Don't keep beating yourself up about it. It happened. Focus on what to do now. How much value is there in the car? Is it possible to get the car fixed, sell it and buy something cheaper?

TheHeathenOfSuburbia · 25/02/2011 11:58

I just can't understand her mentality at all!

If I crashed someone else's car I would be BlushBlushBlush, totally apologetic, paying straight away for repairs, a hire car... how can you just hand back the keys and go, "Yeah, had a bit of a bump there. Not my fault though, looks like it's gonna cost you a fair bit to fix"?!

Scraping the barrel for an explanation... is there any possibility she could be scared of what her husband will do if she agrees to pay the money?

Othersideofthechannel · 25/02/2011 12:04

Sorry about the hijack again.
Nancydrew I just spoke to the DVLA and they confirmed that if you are not resident in the UK, your license is not valid in the UK.

But on their web site it says this:
"Moving to another country
If you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence authorities there for information about driving and exchange of licences. You don't need to notify DVLA of a change of address when moving to live abroad."

It's very misleading isn't it! It doesn't imply anywhere that your UK license could be legal abroad but will no longer be legal in the UK.

I shall be getting DH to drive this weekend!

MadAboutQuavers · 25/02/2011 12:04

I am Shock at her attitude

Explain to her that she is taking money out of her grandchildren's mouths if she doesn't pay for this, as you can't afford to.

Also tell her that when you have to explain to the DC's why you can't have a holiday or buy them x, y or Z for their birthdays, that it's purely because Granny wouldn't pay for the car when she smashed it up.

She's a selfish, piss-taking sod

stubbornhubby · 25/02/2011 12:05

I reckon the explanation is : she was driving illegally and she wants very badly for the OP to get her off that hook by pretending that she was driving.

perhaps she hasn't even told her H what happened...

OP be careful.. if you pretend you were driving for a fraudulent insurance claim, as well as that being criminal in itself, next thing you know the other driver tracks you down and says 'hey! it wasn't her that was driving'

Longtalljosie · 25/02/2011 12:06

Third party insurance doesn't mean she's insured to drive other people's cars, it means if she has a crash in a car she's driving, the other person is covered.

So as far as I can see, if she was in your car, yes she was uninsured. Did she give the other person her details? Is her insured car in Spain? I'm not sure this is going to work out at all.

Oh, and yes obviously she should be paying for the damage, and your DH should be telling her in no uncertain terms this is what must happen, and that she has no right to ask you to commit a crime.

LessNarkyPuffin · 25/02/2011 12:06

For your peace of mind I'd find out ASAP what insurance she has. Don't panic though. Your car is insured, she told you she had legal insurance, I don't think you've done anything illegal. You're also not lying to your own insurance company.

Focus on the sorting out the damage.

ladela · 25/02/2011 12:06

Cheeky cow - I'd be livid!!

My sils car was knackered this week and she wanted to borrow ours - but would only be covered third party (she is fully comp on hers but in the clauses it says if shes driving someone elses shes 3rd party). I wouldn't let her. Her DH is unemployed at the moment and they're really struggling. If she wrecked our car there is no way she could afford to replace it. Instead we offered to lend her the money to get hers fixed. I would have been sick with worry if she was driving about in ours - no way could we afford to repair or replace in the event of an accident. I did feel a bit of a cow though - your post has made me realise IANBU.

Its really awkward when people ask stuff like this. We have a 7 seater we hardly use and the world and his wife always wants to borrow it. When we first got it I let them but now I don't - I worry constantly until we get it back.

Whether your MIL can afford it or not I would STILL expect her to pay it - can't believe shes refusing. Don't know how you've stayed so calm - YADNBU!

LessNarkyPuffin · 25/02/2011 12:08

All you need to drive legally is third party Longtalljosie.

The OP doesn't know what the MIL hit.

ladela · 25/02/2011 12:09

Can I just add - this board is really enlightening. Its shocking the way some people behave. I'm constantly reading posts out to my DH in a 'Can you bloody believe that?' sort of way.

Some people are beyond cheeky!

LessNarkyPuffin · 25/02/2011 12:09

I'd go offline and get some facts out of your MIL and her DH. Without more facts the speculation will just drive you mad.

shinyshoes · 25/02/2011 12:13

she's a cheeky fucker and you must have DH's full backing on this one.

Pack her bags NOW whilst she's out ring DH at work and tell him what you are doing.

Give her an ultimatium either she pays you BEFORE she leaves on Tuesday or she's not welcome back

stubbornhubby · 25/02/2011 12:13

LessNarkyPuffin - indeed but she has spanish insurance... which almost certainly doesn't cover her to drive other people's cars while abroad.

although of course she could have arranged that, if she visits the UK a lot... but something tells me...

shinyshoes · 25/02/2011 12:14

boot on the other foot would she do it for you...................i'm suspecting not

nancydrewfoundaclue · 25/02/2011 12:15

otherside check out the directgov website it is quite helpful.

Essentially the rules are:

A condition of having a UK license is that you are normally resident in the UK and have a UK address;

You can drive on an non UK license for up to 12 mths but this then must be exchanged for a UK license.

Obviously you have to be certain that your insurance company are i) aware that you are driving on a foreign license; ii) that you normally reside outside the UK; and iii) the period you have been residing outseide the UK.

Obviously if they think you have been driving on a UK license and it is not in fact valid then your insurance would also be invalid.

Original poster
thequeensspeech · 25/02/2011 12:16

car not even a year old, and not paid off yet. Sad

OP posts:
tyler80 · 25/02/2011 12:16

I never knew about the surrendering your licence if you move abroad. I bet there are thousands of people who don't. I know lots of people who've worked abroad on short term contracts and I'd be very surprised if they'd surrendered their licence.

When I lived in the US my licence remained registered to my parents address. No idea I was committing an offence. I wasn't using it, I took a test in the usa to get my licence there.

Othersideofthechannel · 25/02/2011 12:20

Nancydrew, I've just phoned the DVLA again because I felt that they should do something about their misleading Web page and have been told by a different person that as a visitor to the UK my license is valid, it would only be invalid if I came to live in the UK again and I would need to apply for a new one.

tippytap · 25/02/2011 12:20

From what you've said, unless you have an 'any driver' extension to your own motor policy, then you MIL was driving your car illegally. Third party cover on a non-UK policy is absolutely meaningless, I'm afraid.

You need to find out if there were any other vehicles involved - if there were, depending on the circumstances, they can make a claim on your policy. As there was no cover for your MIL they would have to pay out under the terns of the Road Traffic Act 1988. If they do that, then they have the right to recover the money from you and your MIL. As your MIL lives abroad, it is more likely that your ins will pursue you rather than her.

I'm sorry.

If though, no other parties were involved, then you will be left with the damaged car.

If it is non-fault, you should get your money back from the other insurers.

Please don't lie about the driver - insurance companies carry out a lot of checks these days.

T

CleverHans · 25/02/2011 12:20

IMO she is being extremely unreasonable in not offering to pay and even more so in asking you to commit a crime. What kind of role model does she want you to be to your kids FGS! I'm wondering if your DH is going to have to try and have a difficult conversation with her and demand recompense.

bBest of luck and my symapthy