Porn. Not a thread about a thread so much as a thread ^inspired^ by a thread

[allsquareknickersnofurcoat]

From what I have seen on MN, it seems I am in a very small minority not to have a problem with porn? Its a complete non-issue to me whether my DH uses porn.
I just dont understand it? Yes, I am aware that women can be exploited, but that is true of so many other things too. And it seems to be the porn itself that is the problem, rather than the working conditions that bothers people anyway.
What is so bad about watching people having sex? To anyone that says its poorly acted, why does that matter so much? Lots of TV programmes are poorly acted, that doesnt stop people enjoying them!

I obviously dont think AIBU, but am curious to know why people would think I am? And okay, part of me is hoping that the use of porn will have a less extreme reaction away from the Relationships board?

cantspel - I wouldn't want to read a book either that depicted violent sex acts being perpertrated on a woman.

To say that pornographic fiction which contains characters who are just that - ie not an actual human being of flesh and blood - and pornographic imagery which does have actual live human beings in, speaks volumes to me about exactly how people in the porn industry are viewed.

I can't understand why some people are holding up Sexcetera as an independent, unbiased wholly true depiction of the sex industry. It's a show designed to titillate and entertain, not necessarily to represent the untarnished truth from all sides of the industry. It appears to me to be very pro-sex industry and so any messages or interviews need to be received with this in mind.

I used to enjoy watching porn, but since thinking more deeply about it, and realising that those people are REAL, it just doesn't turn me on anymore.

I know he doesn't, he knows I do - there's this weird new concept called communication.

I would be perfectly happy if he did, he says he needs to save all his energy for keeping me satisfied.

Hullygully Tue 22-Feb-11 11:40:10

What I meant about exhibitionists was that perhaps people who get off on it would be WILLING participants, paid and treated properly so that we could have slightly more ethical sex films for those who like to watch them.

There is actually a growing market for Amateure porn, for this exact reason.
Eagre willing participants who have a kind of exibhitionsit fantasy, they have sex as they would normally but they film it and release it across the web.

It isn't my thing but i know that a great deal of people are looking for it as they are so bored of the pushing of extreme porn that is peddled nowadays

I know he doesn't, he knows I do - there's this weird new concept called communication.

Agree Mal. Why are people suspicious of anybody who says they have complete communication in a relationship? Why would they prefer to believe that we are misguided in our beliefs that we know all their is to know about our own reletionships.

I have seen my DH wince at porn when flicking through the channels one night (and not porn channels, those wierd little film channels that show soft porn late on). He has no sex issues just porn issues (and a modicum of good taste)

Okay everybody. Go henceforth and google Dan Savage. He is an American Agony Uncle. He is also gay. He gives the most sensible, wise, often irreverent, always wise, funny advice to all kinds of problems. As you might imagine the Porn Problem crops up time and time again. I've really learnt a lot from him.

Seriously, download his free podcast. Disappointed you will not be. And for a laff find out about his google bomb....

Nothing wrong with porn unless it gets in the way of a healthy sex life or one partner tries to encourage other one and they feel uncomfortable with it.

My objections to porn are political, for all the reasons stated above. But those objections are multi-faceted.

It's not just the fact that so many of the actors are exploited/injured/drugged/coerced/raped and are often the most vulnerable in society. Or my belief that it desensitises users who need ever more extreme "hits". Or that the acts portrayed often have a dual agenda to degrade women as well as titillate consumers. Or my belief that there is a link between seeing a woman "used" and degraded via porn and the way that consumer treats women in daily life. Or that even extreme, misogynistic, violent porn is so easily available on a variety of media. Or that therapists report a link between secret porn habits and prostitute use/sex addiction and infidelity. Or that the increased pornification of our culture has led to an entire generation believing that all boys and men will look at porn and that young women should look and act like porn stars. Or the links that school agencies and the police are seeing, between sexual attacks on female students in school and the assailants' porn use.

The political and social implications are endless.

But personally?

As a couple who've been married for 27 years this year and share the above political objections to porn, we just have no need of it. We enjoy a fantastic, imaginative sex life that has no need of porn props. Unlike the ludicrous stereotype beloved of the frightened pro-porn lobby, we just adore sex and neither of us need to watch or read anything to perform, or to masturbate.

Up until very recently i would have been the first to come on here and say, proudly to, nothing wrong with it, i watch it all the time (which i do, well, not all the time you understand!), its personal choice bla bla bla.

But there is a problem with porn on the internet - i challenge you to go online and find a site that isn't 80% mysogeny (ooh dittany would love to see me use that word, the amount of times we have clashed over porn!), there is the odd category that isn't about demeaning women in some way or another. See, there are some pretty extreme bondage sites out there too, and i have no problem with that if it is clearly consensual - the other stuff makes me feel quite ill. The language as well, describing women as skanks etc.

So whilst i have no problem with porn per se, i even enjoy it, i have a massive problem with what is out there just now and it worries me that this will often be teenage boys first taste of sex, its a worry

WWIFN - what do you think of people like Petra Joy's work? It seems like nobody has wanted to comment on the link I posted.
Having actually seen two of her films, just to see if female POV porn is different, I can't honestly see a real problem with them, I don't feel they are a wonderful example of sexual empowerment for women but they are certainly not degrading to women, I found them faintly amusing rather than arousing tbh.

Its all about common decency really. There will always be people who put arguments forward that porn is ok. But how can anyone even begin to debate the subject with people like that, they just dont have the same level of morality or decency that others do.

Malificence - you might have got more uptake on the link if it wasn't half-term Perhaps people will have a look this evening.

eddiemccready - who would you be able to debate the subject with then? Just people who agree with you? Doesn't sound much of a debate to me

www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=15715

Here is Dan Savage's advice to women who don't like their partners looking at porn. I remember flipping out when I found porn on my ex's computer. I have since changed my mind. Largely due to an enlightened boyfriend who showed me that there is so much more than the boring old stereotypes.

While I personally don't mind my DP looking at porn, I think Dan Savage is completely wrong. Women shouldn't have to just 'get over it' if it bothers them. While most (I don't believe all) men may enjoy porn, they don't have to use it - their willies won't drop off if they don't. I take a very dim view of any man who would damage his relationship with his partner over something so trivial.

personally i think most people trot out the usual 'degrading to women' line when really they are just jealous that their man gets off on watching other women :)

i don't mind a bit of porn. Not watched any for a while but it doesn't bother me.

Don't mind if my Dh watches it either...and even if i did he wouldn't be bothered, he would still watch it anyway

Controlling what my Dh see's doesn't even enter my head though..if he wants to watch it fair enough. He still comes to me of an evening (or whenever the fancy takes us )

personally I think women with opinions such as yours "moonbeam" are dimwitted misogynistic anti-feminists who wouldn't know a coherent argument if it shaked its arse in their faces.

Whenwillifeelnormal - what an intelligent and informative post, I agree

It would be interesting to know how many people who watch porn answer this question: would you mind your kids doing porn films when they grow up?!

Buzz - moonbeam is entitled to het opinion is she not? No need for insults if you disagree!

ohhh nice one "buzzlitebeer"

i guess you are entitled to your opinion too.

I reckon people who go round judging people and name calling have lost their argument before they begin :)

And i also believe a coherent argument has two sides...mine is one of them

I think the issue with posts like your moonbeam, is the way it's framed. There is the implication that those who object to the porn industry are "jealous" and "controlling" and there's a further hint that those who object are somehow not up to much in the sexy timez department.

If you read the thread, you will see that many of the posters have put their objections relate to the humiliation/damage/exploitation aspect of the industry, and only a handful have said that their ojections stem from insecurity of their own bodies or whatever.

I do find that the rush to label people who are uncomfortable around the idea of pornography as being jealous to be quite amazingly short sighted. I would in no way say that I am jealous of the women, or the men, who live their lives in that way, and I am massively concerned at the idea that everyone should accept the industry as it is, without questioning it.

well shirley i have re read my post and i can't see where it could give the impression that i say people are no good at 'sexy time'

How on earth would i know what other people are up to just from a post on a forum??

I simply posted MY opinion. I don't have a problem with porn. I hear the same 'degrading to women' line alot.

Like i said in my first post i have seen porn. The women don't look degraded to me. Of course there will be porn i haven't seen because i don't sit watching it all the time...but the ones i have seen they seem as into it as the men. They are doing it as a job and get paid for it. Some docu's i have seen, the women have enjoyed it as much as the men. Some women do enjoy sex and work in the industru because they like it.

I guess it would be like any job...some people enjoy it, some don't.

moonbeam can you not see at all that many women genuinely think that the vast majority of porn out there is degrading to women?

If a woman sees a film which features - I don't know - a woman with a score of men ejaculating over her face or a woman gagging on a penis or a woman who is acting or actually drugged or a woman being penetrated with random objects - can you really not understand that some women might think - hold on - that's degrading...?

i often gag on penis

but seriously, i used to think it was degrading, but now am much more comfortable with it. i dont sit watchin it, but if it came on the tv i wouldnt be quick to turn off like i used to

sardine, i have actually met a woman (i wouldn't call her a friend...more an aquaintance) who loves stuff like that. She puts adds on a certain website and arranges for 'gangbangs'

the reason being is because she loves it. She isn't married, her partner enjoys it as she does. This woman is a 'proffesional' and very well spoken and to look at her you wouldn't believe the things she gets up to.

So no...i genuinely believe that some women will really enjoy it.

The porn that my DHs friends pass around the pub on their phones is interesting to them because it is degrading. All women eating each others shit and being penetrated with revolting things. They look at this stuff and find it amusing. They find it amusing because it is revolting. The point of it is that it is extremely degrading. It's not changed since I was at work 10 years ago and the bloke opposite sent me a picture of a woman with some kind of huge fish up her vagina. Ho de do de ho. How is that stuff not degrading?