AIBU to expect nursery to wipe my sons bum at 4?

[reality1]

Son is 4 and just cannot get the whole wiping bum thing and panicks when his bum isnt properly cleaned.
He has said he cant have a poo at nursery because he cant wipe his bum so he waits until he is home.
I had a word with nursery and they said they are not allowed to they can only talk him through it.
The trouble is my son has quite an issue with this so instead of being talked through wiping his bum he will just hold it in.
He is only just 4 before i get flamed for wiping his bum this long and there are 3 year olds in his class as well AIBU

Nurseries have a ratio of 1:8 AT LEAST nursery classes have a ratio of 1-13

Children aged three and over in any registered early years provision

Between the hours of 8 am and 4 pm, where a person with Qualified Teacher Status, Early Years Professional Status or another suitable level 6 qualification (which is full and relevant, and definedby CWDC) is working directly with the children, the following requirements apply:

there must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children

mrz That doesn't mean to say that is good practice!

Children aged three and over in maintained schools and nursery schools (except for children in
reception classes)
The early years provision in each class or group of pupils must be led by a ?school teacher?.A teacher must be present with the children except during non-contact time, breaks and short term absence.
There must be at least one member of staff for every 13 children.
At least one member of staff must hold a full and relevant level 3 qualification (as defined by CWDC).

Children in reception classes in maintained schools
11 The EYFS does not place ratio and qualification requirements on reception classes in maintained schools provided they fall within the legal definition of an infant class (i.e. a class containing
pupils the majority of whom will reach the age of five, six, or seven during the course of the school year). Such classes are already subject to infant class size legislation: an infant class must not contain more than 30 pupils while an ordinary teaching session is conducted by a
single school teacher

I am glad to say that as an advisor visiting 100's of schools, I have NEVER seen this in reality. It would not be good provision IMO or in reality during an OFSTED!

Does it not?

How many of the staff at your child's nursery have level 3 or above qualifications? Some many nurseries employ staff on low wages and make a big thing of the ratios ... I suppose it depends on what you want out of the experience bum wipers or educators.

and I would suggest you get out more because it is common practice all over the country. The 1-8 ratio only applies in PVI settings without anyone qualified to level 6

Perhaps you should also brush up on your Ofsted requirements

Nursery classes
Nursery classes must have an assigned person with qualified teacher status, early
years professional status or another suitable level 6 qualification (which is full and relevant, and defined by the Children?s Workforce Development Council). Nursery classes must be staffed on a ratio of no less than one adult to 13 children, if the person with the level 6 qualification works directly with the children. If, however, the person with the level 6 qualification does not work directly with the children, there must be at least one member of staff for every eight children ? please refer to the table below on page 31.

Typically, a nursery class of 26 children will have one assigned teacher and an
assistant qualified to NNEB/NVQ Level 3.

Mrz, we've got TAs in all classes. Bearing in mind I teach Y6 and it hasn't been an issue, I'd take a TA from another class so that my class wasn't left alone.
Hugely disruptive, but there you go.
I'm still talking about EY and up, not nursery.

Myself and one level 3 TA. One SEN level 3 TA, student teacher (spring term only).

Next door in Year 1 we have a class teacher, level 3 TA.

Same in year 2.

Office staff x 2 (one of which is also a level 3 TA).

So lots of people well within a shout away!

How one earth can you provide quality play experiences inside and out, free flow between the two AND make observations with just you!??

We have 1 TA in the whole school Goblinchild and with cuts that may not continue

I don't have a clipboard it makes life more manageable

"Perhaps you should also brush up on your Ofsted requirements"
No need thank-you.

I'm stunned.
We spend a huge amount of our budget on staffing, and it's a valid choice. Makes a real impact on learning.
I can't begin to imagine how you manage infants without another adult, they must be extremely independedt learners!

Obviously there was a need as what you said was incorrect

We encourage independence right from nursery

Goblinchild - in my DD's French school there were 30 DC in each class of moyenne and grande section de maternelle and barely a TA in sight. And quite a few of those DC didn't speak a word of French either.

Quite a lot of formal learning went on, too!

"Obviously there was a need as what you said was incorrect"

Do explain?!

I am sure your working very hard mrz and I'm not trying to suggest your not doing a good job, have a glass of
however:

Every child matters!
School vision - does it mention caring for every child??
Good early years teaching is bloody hard and requires adults to observe, engage in, and provide learning oportunities........you may be within legal guidlines but I am not convinced high quality learning is easy in the situation you have described.

What on earth would you say to a child who asked for help?? What would you do if you could smell the child had soilded??

DD's nursery must be extremely overstaffed then! It's an excellent nursery and the children are encouraged to be independent at their own pace - not due to low staffing levels. The school is rated outstanding and the kids achieve well above the average so if they are employing poorly skilled staff to keep their ratios up then they're not doing too bad a job.

It would not be good provision IMO or in reality during an OFSTED!

From Ofsted guidance

Typically, a nursery class of 26 children will have one assigned teacher and an assistant qualified to NNEB/NVQ Level 3.

Fortunately Ofsted disagree with you and rate our EY good with many outstanding features

I would change a child who has soiled after I had cleaned them up and if a child asked for help I would show them how to do it them self with a little help

"I would change a child who has soiled after I had cleaned them up and if a child asked for help I would show them how to do it them self with a little help" Perfect! Not sure why there is an issue then!

its an issue because while I'm doing that another 29 children are not getting my attention and it's unfair on them especially if the reason I'm not there is simply because no one has shown the child how to wipe their own bum.

Well if it's just as easy as showing them mrz then you would only ever have to worry about it happening once.