to send 4 year old ds to bed at 5pm because he won't eat anything I've made tonight or any other night?

[lotuseener]

My 4 year old has major problems with food. He has gotten progressively worse since his refusal to eat certain foods started at around 18 months. He currently will only eat plain boiled white rice, pasta with butter or cream cheese only mixed in, smooth yogurt,
weetabix, cheerios, and very occasionally toast or crackers. He will absolutely not eat any fruit or vegetables of any kind, not even potatoes. He will not eat meat, chicken or fish of any kind, not even fish fingers. He won't eat hard cheese, peanut butter,eggs, soup or fruit smoothies.

He has an absolute obsession with sugar, so much that we cannot keep any treats in the cupboards. If he knows there is a pack of biscuits in the fridge or ice lollies in the freezer he will obsess over them from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed. Going out anywhere that serves or sells food is extremely difficult as he obsesses about what sugary food he can get. For example, we were just at a birthday party where he refused to participate in any of the party games because he knew there was birthday cake there and couldn't focus on anything other than the birthday cake. He asked me about the cake every 5 minutes for the whole 2 hours and did nothing else at the party except cling to me and ask about the cake.

DH and I have tried all the advice we have read about- sticker charts, having him cook with me, having him shop with me, not making a big deal about it, letting him serve himself, etc, etc. A few days ago ds and I made banana bread together, but he made it very clear as we were baking that he would not eat any of it because he doesn't like bananas. He loves to cook and bake with me but will not eat what we make together.

We have made a rule that he has to eat one bite of whatever we are having for dinner before he can get up from the table and do not make special meals for him at dinner any more. This means he puts one bite in his mouth and chews and chews but physically cannot bring himself to swallow. He will either gag his food out or cry to spit it in the bin.

Of course I feel like this is all my fault and beat myself up about it constantly. I desperately want to get to the root of this and help him as I feel this has got to be something greater than just fussy eating. This causes a lot of stress for myself and dh and we fear that he isn't getting the basic nutrition he needs to thrive.

His nursery has been most unhelpful, depsite my pleas for help and advice. He will sit at snack time and pick out every sultana from his scone before he eats the scone. I have picked him up on days where they think that they have finally gotten him to have a bite of apple only to find that the apple is still in his mouth an hour and a half after snack time. As he is a Febuary birthday I have decided to defer his entry to Primary 1 largely based on his problems with eating food.

I have an appointment with the GP on Monday to demand a referral to someone, but I don't know what type of professional can help us. A dietician? I have addressed this issue with the GP before only to be told that he looks healthy and is obviously thriving.

I may be posting in the wrong place but I need some help and some advice please. I don't want to be causing more problems in the long run for my son by doing things like (calmly) sending him to bed early if he won't eat his dinner.

How is he with tooth paste and brushing his teeth?
Will he eat any sweet if it doesn't have fruit in it?

Will he drink a nutritious meal replacement drink? Maybe a vanilla one? They come with added iron and protein, and are sweet.

www.child-behavior-guide.com/oral-defensiveness.html
There is a test you can do with food colouring on the tongue that seem easy, explained on this link.

Even if a child is just 'fussy' and has no SN what some people are willing to do to make a child eat is fucking astounding and quite frankly cruel. I wonder if these people would enjoy eating a plate of liver or something they really dislike. As an adult and generally a pretty polite one I would probably vomit if faced with a plate of liver or buttery mash...I hate those foods and even if a Harvey Nichols voucher was on offer I couldn't eat it.

I'm really proud of the OP, especially for her use of the word 'fuckfaces', but just from her initial post she has altered her mindset.....I hope this hasn't caused you unnecessary upset OP, we all have to reach a low point to build to a high.

Really the best of luck to you and MaryPoppins, Mama, Jareth and anyone else suffering food issues with their child. It seems many people would rather you punish and starve a child than work with them to find a solution. I can imagine that many people in RL just dismiss your concerns for your 'fussy and therefore spoilt' child.

Hi OP, sorry I haven't had time to read the whole thread so don't know if this has already been suggested but it would definitely be worth seeing a child psychologist. My nephew had similar issues and a very restricted diet, and I know they did a lot of work with a child psychologist that helped a lot.

"I've always thought that if there is food on my childs plate and they don't eat it or don't eat much then they're not that hungry"

Well that just shows what you know.

When I was a child I wouldn't have eaten things I didn't like no matter how hungry I got, or what punishments were meted out. Being forced to put food into my mouth that I didn't want to eat would have been really upsetting and I would not have swallowed it either. Nothing, and I really mean NOTHING, would have induced me to eat food I didn't like.

The more pushing went on, the more of an issue it became, the more of a battleground mealtimes became, the less likely I was to eat things and the fewer things I ate.

In fact, that is one thing that hasn't changed much. Like ThePosey I would not eat a plate of buttery mash and liver if it was put in front of me. The very thought is making me gag and I literally, physically couldn't get it down.

I didn't have SN or ASD, I was just a fussy eater that developed food issues as a toddler.

OP, I'm not saying your DS doesn't have some issues that need dealing with, or indeed that help from a doctor wouldn't have sorted out my issues earlier.

But even if he doesn't have SN that doesn't change that he is his own person, that he will choose what he likes to eat, that he obviously has issues surrounding food and that working with him, rather than against him, is the best way to make sure he is getting enough to eat.

I know how hard this will be - but please try to worry about it less, to be less stressed about it. Try to take the panic out of the whole thing and become more matter of fact about it. Instead of being upset about all the things he won't eat, concentrate on the 5 things he will eat and see if you can extend that at all.

My DD1 is quite like I was as a child and I think was heading down a similar road to your DS. She doesn't have a wonderful range of food, but I have really forced the issue with DH (and my parents) that we never push her to eat anything, we never let her know that it really matters to us that she eat, she gets no praise for eating and no criticism for leaving, she gets a lot of the things she likes and I try to make enough variations of them that it increases the range slightly.

But it still worries me at times (there are better periods and worse periods) and I understand where she's coming from.

Best of luck :)

OP...please update us when you get the right help.

I feel for you. My daughter was younger than yours when we had problems but she wouldn't eat MOST foods we had an awful time trying to move her onto real foods rather than baby type foods.
I made her things i knew she liked ( my thinking was that i have a fear of prawns - i actually feel sick if i see someone eating one so i woukdnt like to be forced or told that was the only food). I also included one thing per meal that she generally didn't eat. I didn't ask her tot ry it but if she did i would reward her.
I'm guessing you have tried this sirt of thing by now though.

I think you are right to ask for help.

I haven't read all the replies but I was a fussy eater & agree that the thought of being forced to eat something is very distressing. I eat well now but v different foods to the things my mother tried to force me to eat (lumpy mash, over cooked veg, fatty & gristly meat anyone?)

I can remember crying at the bottom if the garden after being beaten for not eating something...

I think my mother eventually gave up trying to force me. I remember living on sandwiches at one point!

I started to eat better when I left home & had more choice about what to eat...

I have two fussy eaters now & one who will eat everything. The older of the fussy eaters has improved as he got older & now eats a wider variety of things.

I either cook them a separate dinner or adapt what I am cooking - eg if we are having spag bol they have plain spag with grated cheese...

Posted further up the dietitain recommended minadex tonic for a couple of months to boost iron levels, you can find this in the supermarket.

Good point made above that low iron levels can reduced appetite

Yes I recommend minadex.

Mt DS had it after he had ENT infection, cold, slap cheek and D&V bug all in the space of 6 weeks. It made such a difference after just a few days.

Good luck OP. I think you are doing the right thing now in going back to your GP.

Yes you need professional help with this one. You have obviously done everything you can and responded really well but there is something more fundamental going on IMHO.

Good morning all. More posts over night I see. Ds actually loves to brush his teeth and eat toothpaste since he was quite young. Toothpaste is something I have had to keep out of his reach since he was introduced to it because he used to want to take the lid off of it and just suck. He isn't this extreme any more but would brush his teeth 10x a day if I let him. We only do it 2x a day though. I have noticed that his breath has been very foul smelling for a while now, no matter how freshly clean his teeth are.

I am going to lok into the nutritional drink, what a great idea!

He is a bit funny about cake, I think it is a texture thing. Even the orange and lemon muffins from Costa that he would get occasionally he would break in half and pick every single piece of (almost invisible) piece of very soft orange out.

Even on Christmas Eve leaving milk and cookies out for Santa he couldn't just have fun with it. The cookies became an obsession, something that he had to keep constantly talking about until he fell asleep. It wasn't about leaving a treat out for Santa, as it seemed to be torture for him that there was a plate of something sweet out on display that was completely consuming for ds.

I am writing the letter to the GP today. I will update tomorrow after the appointment.

Not had time to read everything, but I think YABU to punish him, but can understand that you must be at the end of your tether/desperate with the situation and have probably run out of ideas.

Please do get some professional help. I'm sure others will have said similar but your son may be on the autistic spectrum (the obsessive behaviour is typical) or he may just have big psychological issues around food for some reason.

My younger son was a very fussy eater but in the end, I just went with it and gave him what he would eat rather than him eating nothing (though obviously don't only give your son sweet food!) as I certainly wouldn't want to eat something I didn't want to eat, however much anyone tried to 'make' me. I've read of children before who would only eat chocolate, or cucumber, and it wasn't great but they didn't die.

It's definitely not your fault, or even your son's, he's not being like this on purpose. Try not to make it an issue and just enjoy the positive aspects of your lives together for now without each day being stressful/a battle.

Good luck. And don't take no from your GP, ask for a second opinion if need be and just keep going!

Good luck with the GP!

My nephew has horrendous eating probs. He had undiagnosed reflux so have been sick a lot so associated food with being sick. He would eat pizza, chicken nuggets, yorkshire puddings - that was IT!

If my sis didn't give him these then he would eat nothing. He once went 3 days without food even being offered the things he loved, and finally when he said he was hungry he ate a full 12" pizza. He was just short of being 3.

He was referred to a dietician who said that what he was getting was ok but to make sure that the chicken nuggets were fried. She said that children can manage without a full range of foods (as how else would previous generations have survived!) and to just make sure that the foods he had were of high calorie as possible to help his growth and energy.

She made no fuss about it, gave him what he wanted and gradually things improved. He is not a bad eater now.

I know how my sis stressed about it so i know how you must be feeling.

"foul smelling breath"

Hmmmm. My ds, you see, had so many problems. One thing was his anemia, this was a result of another underlying cause. It was a vicious circle. He stopped eating well at around 18 months, like yours. He did not have a normal diet until he was around 6. While we DID manage to address his eating and build up his iron reserves, he had other problems.

He kept saying he had a tummy ache. He would often start eating, gag and stop. He would sometimes just vomit. He had tonsillitis on many occasions, and could not eat, and neither drink. If had drank a whole glass of water in one go, he might just vomit it up again.

At 4, he had his appendix out. The consultant said he had a long slow build up to appendicitis. After his op, his eating improved, and his breath was slightly better.

At 5, he had his tonsils out. The consultant said they were so big he would find it very hard to swallow, would prefer liquid food, dairy and other soft things. After he recovered from this op, he has flourished, and his breath has been totally fine.

Just to give you some ideas, there could be medical issues underlying his food preferences.

If you are keen on iron rich sweet foods, how is he with chocolate covered raisins? Raisins are rich in iron. What about a fruit smoothie? Have you tried making one from blueberries, redcurrants, blackcurrants, rasberries, strawberries, (you can get these frozen and use) with banana and some youghurt or icecream? The berries are full of vitamins, and the currants are full of iron and vitamin c.

Eggs? Again rich in iron. Scrambled eggs where you can remove some of the whites (the yolk is extremely rich in iron, not so much in the whites) and make scrambled eggs based on f ex 2 yolks and one white.
Bread? Wholemeal has more nutrition and iron than white. Same goes for brown or wholemeal rice and pasta. My sons favourite lunch would be macaroni with chunks of hardboiled eggs. I would mash the yolk out, so covering the macaroni and he would not really notice.
Baked beans? Another food rich in iron.

I would assume that your child might be a little low on iron based on your description of what he eats. Whether iron deficiency is the cause or a side effect of his eating habits, is of course hard to say. With our son, it was a side effect due to other problems (his stomach and his tonsils)

QS...your posts are really enlightening.

I am pleased to see that so many have seen the neccesity in OP seeking help.

this reminds me of a documentary that was aired a whilel back called "the girl whom never ate" She sounds very like your son in that she had a very limited area of food she would eat She was send to a clinic in Switzerland i belive it was where they retaught her how to enjoy food.

Might be something to look into. 100% insist on a referral IMO you do not need a dietician you need someone that specialises in Childrens Phobia's Good luck and please do update us.

QS - my youngest (and fussiest) has been complaining of tummy problems for a couple of months, nausea rather than a pain though. His breath has also smelled bad at times. You've got me worried now!

nausea feels high up in the throat, though?
My ds had both.

Good luck with the appointment OP - I will look out for your update. It is interesting to see how many people have dc's or know children with severe eating problems.

We just got back from the GP. I wrote a 2 page letter discussing my concerns. I also added a few things I remembered while I was writing that I didn't think about while posting here. My son hates fancy dress and imaginative play. He gets so upset when I use silly voices, make believe stories, etc. He is very literal about everything. He also gets very upset when his routine changes. This could be my fault though as I have been a stickler for routine since he was a baby.

Anyway, she did give me the paper for his blood test to take to the children's hospital. She is also very concerned about his iron levels. I also forgot to tell you all that he has the sickle cell trait. I remembered to remind her about this.

She wanted me to see the health visitor to see if they have any more eating tricks that they could possibly teaching. I said that I have been down this road many times over the last 2+ years and I do not feel that there is anything new that I haven't tried with him.

I told her that I felt that there was more going on than just fussing eating. She agreed with me based on his obsessive behaviour and dislike of imaginative play. She agreed to write a referral letter to the children's mental health team. She said that letter goes to a central place and that place will decide who is the best person/team to see my son.

So I will phone tomorrow to make his blood test appointment and then wait for the next step. I couldn't keep back the tears at many points during our appointment. There has been lots of rice and weetabix and no early bedtimes since this thread started.

Thank you all for your advice and support and knowledge (especially you qs). It is the beginning of a probably very long process but at least I can be confident that I am on the right path of doing the right thing for my son.

Thanks for updating, I was thinking about you and your ds today. I am glad you got to see your gp, and that you were taken seriously. Yo have made the most important step now, and you have the referrals. Hopefully you will have some answers soon (and something better to eat than wheetabix and rice!!) and that you and your ds feels better.

Dont forget to come back and update us!

Oh my dear i just wanted so say i have been thinking of ye and hope ye will be well taken care of now xxx

Thanks for the update. I don't know if he'd refuse it, but have you tried cooking his white rice with chicken or beef broth instead of water, to add a little nutrients to it?