to send 4 year old ds to bed at 5pm because he won't eat anything I've made tonight or any other night?

[lotuseener]

My 4 year old has major problems with food. He has gotten progressively worse since his refusal to eat certain foods started at around 18 months. He currently will only eat plain boiled white rice, pasta with butter or cream cheese only mixed in, smooth yogurt,
weetabix, cheerios, and very occasionally toast or crackers. He will absolutely not eat any fruit or vegetables of any kind, not even potatoes. He will not eat meat, chicken or fish of any kind, not even fish fingers. He won't eat hard cheese, peanut butter,eggs, soup or fruit smoothies.

He has an absolute obsession with sugar, so much that we cannot keep any treats in the cupboards. If he knows there is a pack of biscuits in the fridge or ice lollies in the freezer he will obsess over them from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed. Going out anywhere that serves or sells food is extremely difficult as he obsesses about what sugary food he can get. For example, we were just at a birthday party where he refused to participate in any of the party games because he knew there was birthday cake there and couldn't focus on anything other than the birthday cake. He asked me about the cake every 5 minutes for the whole 2 hours and did nothing else at the party except cling to me and ask about the cake.

DH and I have tried all the advice we have read about- sticker charts, having him cook with me, having him shop with me, not making a big deal about it, letting him serve himself, etc, etc. A few days ago ds and I made banana bread together, but he made it very clear as we were baking that he would not eat any of it because he doesn't like bananas. He loves to cook and bake with me but will not eat what we make together.

We have made a rule that he has to eat one bite of whatever we are having for dinner before he can get up from the table and do not make special meals for him at dinner any more. This means he puts one bite in his mouth and chews and chews but physically cannot bring himself to swallow. He will either gag his food out or cry to spit it in the bin.

Of course I feel like this is all my fault and beat myself up about it constantly. I desperately want to get to the root of this and help him as I feel this has got to be something greater than just fussy eating. This causes a lot of stress for myself and dh and we fear that he isn't getting the basic nutrition he needs to thrive.

His nursery has been most unhelpful, depsite my pleas for help and advice. He will sit at snack time and pick out every sultana from his scone before he eats the scone. I have picked him up on days where they think that they have finally gotten him to have a bite of apple only to find that the apple is still in his mouth an hour and a half after snack time. As he is a Febuary birthday I have decided to defer his entry to Primary 1 largely based on his problems with eating food.

I have an appointment with the GP on Monday to demand a referral to someone, but I don't know what type of professional can help us. A dietician? I have addressed this issue with the GP before only to be told that he looks healthy and is obviously thriving.

I may be posting in the wrong place but I need some help and some advice please. I don't want to be causing more problems in the long run for my son by doing things like (calmly) sending him to bed early if he won't eat his dinner.

I haven't read all of this but I wouldn't send him to bed early.

I would just put down his food with the rest of the family nad if he doesn't eat it it goes in the bin and her gets nothing else until breakfast. If he wont eat that, same deal, he gets nothing else until lunch.

It does sounds as if you need alot more help though. Try if you can find Suppernanny extreme parenting on 4OD catch up. There was one specific episode with a 4/5 year old who refused to eat anything but sweet things. They made real progress with her.

Gosh, this is quite a situation you have here. I do think you do need to get some professional help, even if you start with your HV or GP initially. I think you need a child behaviourist's opinion on it.

We have quite similar behaviour from our 4yo DD. When I asked the HV about it (as were also having issues with day-time wetting) I was told this is a clasic age for children exerting their control over the three main areas sleep/eating/toiletting - these are really the only things they can control. The gagging and spitting into the bin you describe is highly controlling behaviour. What reaction do you give when he is doing this? What is his personality like generally?

He may have a genuine food phobia or is being controlling. What happens if you and serve up meals, eat together but completely ignore him? My DD kicks off many times but I ignore her completely and just chat to DD1 who is eating nicely, we finish and move on to pudding. Usually I can see out of the corner of my eye after 10-15 minutes of fuss and complaining about the meal/quantity of serving she will start to eat. I don't insist that either of them finish their plates but the have to make A CONCERTED EFFORT (they are well aware of this!) It is exhausting and frustrating though so I know where you are coming from.

Punishing not eating by sending to bed for is counterproductive. Although I do ask my DD's to leave the table for 5 minutes if they are displaying bad table manner/throwing food on the floor etc.

There are some contraversial child behaviourists who say that a child will never starve themselves, and that a hungry child will eat. But that is quite a hard-core road to go down, although if we continue to have problems I could do it if I had to.

I would insist on a referral to the child mental health team.

No advice to offer but this does sound well beyond "naughtiness". Hope you can get the answers you seek....

If your ds doesn't eat what the rest of your family do, does he get another option OP?

I wouldn't dream of being cruel posie - the reason I ask is because I have worked with many families who DO just that, so the child is hanging out for 'treats.'

You poor lady - how stressful
This must be

I dont hav any advice as such but you have my sympathy and I agree that your child needs some specialist help for this

Good luck and please do come back when there is progress after help

I would also insist on a referral and be prepared to fight your corner and not take no for an answer from your Dr. The worst that can come out of this is that they say there isn't a problem and point you in the right direction to help him eat more foods.

If you have a look at this website you can search for consultants in your area who may specialise in nutrition or child psycology and then you can go to the dr with the info.

I really hope you can find someone that can help you. I really feel for you it must be very stressful, food is such a powerful thing.

Dr Foster

hth

I wouldn't defer him starting school, many kids find it much easier to eat with their peers. My ds suddenly started eating loads more than he did as a result of having school dinners.

ThePosieParker - I've just sent you a PM.

lotuseener - DS eats Readybrek and weetabix, peanut butter sandwiches for lunch (will eat tuna if really hungry), and either sausages or fish fingers/fish cakes with mash for dinner. After a week with a star chart and promise of Ben 10 toys he at least licked various veg and ate a pea (I think I may have done a small dance at that point )

His issue is definitely texture. He hates anything slimy and will not tolerate fruit, veg, anything in a sauce etc. He had norovirus when small, and just getting used to eating at 9mo, and spent the next 9 months eating little other than biscuits and yoghurts.

DH nad I have been in constant coversation since reading all of these posts. We get extremely overwhelmed and tense sometimes as we feel like we are failing ds1 when we can't get him to eat anything with nutritional value. I am going to type out a concise letter for the GP on Monday so everything is documented and I will not let the GP just dismiss my concerns.

This thread is moving fast so I don't know if I am answering all the individual questions. I don't want to do anything to cause more distress with him with food. I can remember having to sit at the table until I ate my green beans. Yuck. To this day, I will never eat a green bean and I still resent my stepdad for making me eat them when I was a young girl.

If it isn't just controlling behaviour (which IMunprofessionalO it doesn't seem to be). Then gentle persuasion (as Jareth suggests) or some kind of outside help is what is needed.

My DM tried everything and I just couldn't/wouldn't eat the majority of foods. I would sit at the table for HOURS, and it made no difference. I'm sure if I had been TOTALLY starving I may have eaten a tiny bit of something, but I don't think starvation would have 'cured' me.

If it makes you feel any better OP, once I got to adulthood, I lost the majority of my food issues. Some still remain (hatred of fat on meat, certain textures of foods etc) and I am now VERY much NOT underweight !

Poor OP it sounds really horrible, and it is very easy with a fussy eater to think that if only you did something different then the issue would resolve. However it sounds as if your ds isn't really a fussy eater, rather someone who has food phobias plus obsessions. I would try approaching the GP with that perspective, that you are really worried about his obsessive behaviour rather than just his eating and see if you can get him referred into the child and adolescent mental health system (I think you are Scottish, so not sure what the equivalent to CAMHS is) otherwise if the GP judges that he is of a healthy weight you will probably be told not to worry too much and that he will probably grow out of it (as many children will).

I rarely post...

But my ds sounds exactly like yours. He is 6 now..but from the very first days of weaning he would not eat anything 'wet' or 'hot' he would gag, vomit or clamp his mouth shut. As a toddler if cold he would eat bread, crackers, carrot, brocolli, chips, pizza, crisps, biscuits, apple, grapes and rasins (I can still list them all now!)
He still has a very very limited diet now all the above with a few more veggies and fruit and if coerced plain rice, baked potato plain and plain pasta...thats it!

We went through years of trying to convince him to eat (we tried everything! from starving him to praising him, to listening to all the inlaws telling me how I was pandering to him).
I finally had a eureka moment when I decided no more...he could eat what he wanted as lomg as he ate a balanced diet..eg he chooses but he has to have veg and fruit eith each meal.
It has TRANSFORMED our lives! Ds is happy and lively and healthy.

Ok so I still have to put up with the judgy inlaws....but Im developing a very thick skin.

Actually ds is finally being assessed for being on the autistic spectrum which I could have told the experts years ago!

Good luck with it...and my thoughs are with you!

No constructive advice just wanted to say im sorry your having such a tough time of it, it sounds very stressful. My boys are fussy eaters but not very bad and even they get me upset so i can totally understand why ye must be at the end of yer tether... For what its worth my little sister had very very bad food issues, she had an allergic reaction to anti sickness meds my mum gave her when very little and her tongue swelled up and her eyes were rolling, the doctors thought she had special needs from her behaviour but my mum was like she never had them before what have i done! It was very stressful but she recovered, but then the major trouble to get her to eat ANYTHING started. There are pictures of her looking so frightfully skinny and pale she just looked so sick and my mother aged so much from the stress but eventually as years passed she gradually took a little bit more and a little bit more variety and she is now a wonderfully healthy young woman who is studying health promotion and loves all aspects of nutrition... And eats great. The reason for my waffle is just to give you some hope, my sister was an extreme case, terribly under weight and very hard for my mum but it got better... I would still demand your g.p refer you to see a pead if i was you. Take care

I really feel for you.

My DS was like this at that age (from the age of 2-4 yrs-ish). He only ate on brand of sausage, spaghetti hoops, yoghurt, bananas and weetabix. I remember the list clearly. It was so stressful. We tried all the things you've tried and nothing worked. I used to worry myself sick about his health, and about how it would affect him socially in future.

Over the last 2 yrs he has become less phobic and is now a fussy - but within the realms of normal - eater. It happened gradually - he just started to occasionally want to try something new and got more and more brave. However, his obsessive behaviour transferred to other areas of his life and he was diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome last year. I am not for a moment saying that your son is autistic (no way!), but food phobias aren't always triggered by a bad experience with food /constipation / sickness etc - they are very often part of a wider issue with anxiety (in my son's case, the anxiety and need for control stems from his AS).

It is definitely worth getting a referral from your GP. They may wan to refer you to a Paediatrician in the first instance, but I would push for a direct referral to CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health service). They will have seen this before, undoubtedly, and may be able to help.

Good luck.

OP..I think you forget your past responses, you wouldn't be a great parent if you gave into every whim and this is food and eating, we all do it right? How were you to know your 'fussy' child may actually have issues? It's only when you've tried everything that you reach this point, I would argue that unless you'd sent him to his room, punished him, stuck stickers or got your DH to morris dance around the kitchen dressed as a pea you wouldn't be at the point of seriously looking for help.

We all make mistakes...each and every parent, and if we don't know it we find out when they grow up!!

I found it

Watch this episode. The child is older but he's the same. He wont eat food but has no problem with eating crisps and junk food.

Personally I would do the opposite of what you've been doing for now and completely ignore him. Throw out his food and don't say anything to him if he wont eat it but he will get nothing else. No sugar no treats, nothing else until the next meal.

It's not your fault. But it's not his fault either. Sending him to bed because he won't eat food is not fair. He's not doing it to be bold.

I was like this as a kid (although without the obsession with sugary food and TV).

Say you've "tried" being relaxed about it, but that's not something you try, that's something you do consistently all the time, not for a bit while you're really freaking out.

Small children having very restricted, weird diets is not at all unusual.

My mother's memory is that I started being picky after an illness, and in as much as I can remember why it started, that seems right to me.

As hard as it is, you have to make peace with the fact that what he eats is up to him, it's his choice.

He's not sick, or underweight, and you don't need to worry about people laughing about him when he's older, that's just silly. Some people just like to eat the same thing for lunch every day. I do, and I eat a very varied diet now.

Trust him a little more to know what he likes to eat, listen to what he tells you he likes.

If you're that worried about his nutrition why are you refusing to make him meals that he finds appetising?

Although my food issues as a child were weird, it is also the case that I just like very different food to my parents (well, my father). A lot of the things they eat I just don't enjoy and it really took until I was an adult and cooking for myself to realise that some of the things I had been forced to eat for years and had been told repeatedly I was wrong to dislike (e.g. potatoes) are just things I don't want to eat because I dislike the taste and texture. And that's OK. You don't have to like everything.

spidookly....I am always certain when I read your posts that I will agree, kick myself that you're so reasonable and wish I'd said it, and am generally in awe!

thought I'd share.

Personally I would do the opposite of what you've been doing for now and completely ignore him. Throw out his food and don't say anything to him if he wont eat it but he will get nothing else. No sugar no treats, nothing else until the next meal.

I agree.

YABU. This is clearly not just naughty behaviour that needs to have consequences but a real issue that he needs help for. It may be hugely inconvenient for you but he obviously has problems with food that aren't going to be resolved by sending him to bed early.

If it continues after he's been at school for a while then I would look into getting professional help but I know of several children that had 'food issues' and when they got to school they changed. The teachers and stuff at school deal with it all the time and are less emotive about it so often get better results.

Can you get him to a surestart centre before he starts school? They were brilliant with my niece and used to make her stay at the table while the others finished their dinner and had pudding when she said she'd finished so eventually she ate more and different stuff too that sh wouldn't even look at when at home.

She's still fussy sometimes at home but as someone said it's the only control they have and to be honest aren't there times when we don't want to eat certain things.

Hi, i have a dd1 who is 7 and has been a fussy eater since 18 months(ish), last year she looked so pale ad i took her to the GP (she was under weight, slightly animic and lacking vitimians), the GP told me to feed her what she wants (at the time she would only eat cheese and tomatoe pizza and cheese sandwiches), so i did just that, each night i asked her what she wanted and gave it to her (made no fuss and did not ry and force new things on her), she's now very healthy and often tries new things with out being asked too, she now eats fish, chicken and (sometimes) sausages, she still has a limited diet but seems a lot helthier and we are both less stressed.

Dd1's food isues are down to sensory problems, she has mild aspergers syndrome and struggles with different textures and wont eat anything wet or too dry (so no pasta, gravy, sauces ect..). I have another dd who will eat anything .