to send 4 year old ds to bed at 5pm because he won't eat anything I've made tonight or any other night?

[lotuseener]

My 4 year old has major problems with food. He has gotten progressively worse since his refusal to eat certain foods started at around 18 months. He currently will only eat plain boiled white rice, pasta with butter or cream cheese only mixed in, smooth yogurt,
weetabix, cheerios, and very occasionally toast or crackers. He will absolutely not eat any fruit or vegetables of any kind, not even potatoes. He will not eat meat, chicken or fish of any kind, not even fish fingers. He won't eat hard cheese, peanut butter,eggs, soup or fruit smoothies.

He has an absolute obsession with sugar, so much that we cannot keep any treats in the cupboards. If he knows there is a pack of biscuits in the fridge or ice lollies in the freezer he will obsess over them from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed. Going out anywhere that serves or sells food is extremely difficult as he obsesses about what sugary food he can get. For example, we were just at a birthday party where he refused to participate in any of the party games because he knew there was birthday cake there and couldn't focus on anything other than the birthday cake. He asked me about the cake every 5 minutes for the whole 2 hours and did nothing else at the party except cling to me and ask about the cake.

DH and I have tried all the advice we have read about- sticker charts, having him cook with me, having him shop with me, not making a big deal about it, letting him serve himself, etc, etc. A few days ago ds and I made banana bread together, but he made it very clear as we were baking that he would not eat any of it because he doesn't like bananas. He loves to cook and bake with me but will not eat what we make together.

We have made a rule that he has to eat one bite of whatever we are having for dinner before he can get up from the table and do not make special meals for him at dinner any more. This means he puts one bite in his mouth and chews and chews but physically cannot bring himself to swallow. He will either gag his food out or cry to spit it in the bin.

Of course I feel like this is all my fault and beat myself up about it constantly. I desperately want to get to the root of this and help him as I feel this has got to be something greater than just fussy eating. This causes a lot of stress for myself and dh and we fear that he isn't getting the basic nutrition he needs to thrive.

His nursery has been most unhelpful, depsite my pleas for help and advice. He will sit at snack time and pick out every sultana from his scone before he eats the scone. I have picked him up on days where they think that they have finally gotten him to have a bite of apple only to find that the apple is still in his mouth an hour and a half after snack time. As he is a Febuary birthday I have decided to defer his entry to Primary 1 largely based on his problems with eating food.

I have an appointment with the GP on Monday to demand a referral to someone, but I don't know what type of professional can help us. A dietician? I have addressed this issue with the GP before only to be told that he looks healthy and is obviously thriving.

I may be posting in the wrong place but I need some help and some advice please. I don't want to be causing more problems in the long run for my son by doing things like (calmly) sending him to bed early if he won't eat his dinner.

"Personally I would do the opposite of what you've been doing for now and completely ignore him. Throw out his food and don't say anything to him if he wont eat it but he will get nothing else. No sugar no treats, nothing else until the next meal.

I agree."

I disagree.

A fussy food-phobic eater will just get more distressed.

Agree with not sending him to bed early, and x 1000 with getting a referral for specialist help.

I'm unsure what I would do in the meantime - hard to say whether just letting him have the food he likes is better, or saying nothing but not giving him an alternative if he doesn't eat your prepared meal. I would definitely give up the making him eat one bite, as that doesn't seem to be doing much except stress you all out more.

On the 'being teased' front, I also have to say that people are very rude to comment on other people's eating habits in the way you've described - but IMO it makes them look far more pathetic than the girl who only eats peanut butter and jam sandwiches. As an onlooker I would be thinking 'Well, she's a bit unadventurous, but how sad are they that they have so little in their lives as to go on about what someone else has for their lunchtime sandwich?' Truly juvenile.

Jareth the OP has been coaxing him and making an issue out of if for so long and it doesn't work. making an issue of it doesn't work so how about not making an issue of it. Stop drawing attention to it and see waht he does.

he's also perfectly able to eat foods that are loaded with sugar, including birthday cake, so I don't think he's a food phobic eater or he wouldn't eat anything. All about control.

Are there any other behavioural issues at all OP?

Until you get professional advice OP let the boy eat what he wants and when he wants, sorry spidookly I don't think I read you right, this will build an appetite. A GP said to me, when panicking about DS1's no dairy, that humans are great survivors and we can get the tiniest bit of nutrients from very little....especially as children. Gosh children made it threw the second world war in all sorts of situations....

It was school (aged 4/5) that massively expanded our dd2's very limited range. The list looks very familiar, pasta and rice, no other carbs, yoghurt, and in addition (which your little one doesn't) ham and cucumber. And that was it! I used to get very stressed about the no bread, no other protein, no nothing, except a desire for sweet things, she would still eat all her calories in cake and ice-cream if allowed.

Personally, I would give up for now with the trying a mouthful and gagging, and sending to bed. I would let them eat exactly what they want, as although it is not completely nutritional, there is protein and fat in the milk and yoghurt, and there are carbs in there too. Recent thinking is that fruit and veg are overrated! I say this not to make light of it, just to say that your child may not be as nutritionally deprived as you imagine, that would be what I would want to know from the doctor, as if actually he's pretty ok on that front, it will give you the confidence to relax a bit and take the extreme stress out of mealtimes.

I would definitely go to the doctors, though, and seek specialist advice, as if it seems to be getting worse, not better, this is a bit different than the usual trajectory of a fussy two year old which gets better as they go to school and mix with other children eating all kinds. Good luck, I really feel for you on this one, I know the stress of those rice and yoghurt dinners!

Again I agree with what A1980 says - I can feel the anxiety through the laptop screen from what the OP says - if it becomes a little less fraught and the attention isn't on eating, it might come good. That's why school dinners/school is good - less emotion involved.

Many children get obsessions as such and is a phase they go through. But it does sound like your DS' is ruling his life iyswim? I agree wholeheartedly about pushing the GP for a referral. If it is stopping your DS from enjoying parties, park etc.

I can see why you've sent your DS to bed early, I don't agree it should be a punishment but if he's sleeping that much he obviously needs it, and may be an indication that his limited diet is not enough for him.

I'm sending you poitive vibes and it sounds like you and DH have taken a very sensible approach to this so far.

A1980 - that's absolute rubbish. DS will eat dry food but seems almost scared of anything wet/slimy. He'll eat biscuits, of course.. he won't touch lolly's or sweets though.

believe me, i've tried the ignoring. If I present him with something he doesn't normally eat then he's bursts into tears. This gets ignored. Day after day of this. I put e.g. tuna pasta in front of him (he likes tuna) he just won't eat any of it. He'll sit there, and won't touch it. He'd go hungry rather than eating something like that.

A1980....you're totally wrong. Food phobics don't starve to death, it's reasonable to think a child that doesn't want to eat sausage/pasta or whatever will eat cake.

I agree about the no attention to get the limelight away from your DS, for the whole family, as it puts a strain on all of you. I also agree that you should relax, retrain yourself about how you feel around DS eating.

Good point onetoomany.

What the child is eating is not that un healthy. He's eating carbs and dairy and protein as you say. Perhaps don't keep him back from school OP. perhaps he'll grow out of it when he goes to school and sees other children eating normally when you aren't there with him.

The OP as already said that her ds is at nursery and his food issues are the same there (picking out the raisins from his scone as an example) so I doubt that having other children around hi will make any difference at all. I agree that this can be very helpful with 'normal' fussiness.

My dd had a fairly restrictive diet (her issue was texture) when she was small and we found that the best approach was to adapt to her, much as I disliked doing so. So we ate very plainly for a few years (which made me very sad, but better than the stress of fighting with her) usually with food on the table for everyone to help themselves (so plain chicken, plain vegetables, plain pasta/potatoes/rice and only ever separate sauces) it was very boring and tedious, but over time her diet has widened and we can now go out for meals and our family diet is pretty much where I'd like it to be (we can eat things like fish pie and stew without the screaming that would have resulted when she was small).

However from the OP's descriptions her ds's behaviour is much more extreme, and I really think that a peadiatric assessment is the way to go.

My DS was an absolute nightmare with food before he started school. Luckily he had a really fabulous teacher at nursery who encouraged him to join them for lunch (it was attached to a boys prep school). The first couple of weeks were a bit of a struggle, but eventually he settled down and started to try new foods - he came home straight after lunch so if he didn't eat then I could give him something. It wasn't immediate, but he is now 8 and is brilliant about trying new foods.

"A1980....you're totally wrong. Food phobics don't starve to death, it's reasonable to think a child that doesn't want to eat sausage/pasta or whatever will eat cake."

That doesn't make sense... or is it just me

And I disagree that just because they like cake, it's just a control thing. Children who go on to have real issues with limited eating often have 'safe' foods, i.e. ones that are comforting or don't make them gag and then just want to eat those. I think it's too early to say if this is fussiness to the extreme or something else, but all this gagging, making them eat stuff that makes them ill, sending to bed just has to stop, as it will not make him eat better (and it hasn't up til now, just created a whole load of stress).

Sorry not to have read all of thread. My ds was/is much the same. He turns out to be a supertaster, and dyspraxic. they often find strong food painful, My ds 10 still cries if someone peels an orange near him.

Just a thougt. Other dypraxic signs are lack of co ordination, poor balance, emtional immaturity, fear of loud noises, poor hand skills, extreme sensitivity...just a few pointers in case this might be the case

Jareth, perhaps new foods could be introduced on a tiny plate (like a doll's plate) next to the actual food he will eat? Nothing said, at all. Then if the tiny morsel gets eaten it's party time, if not nothing, no big deal.

It's just you.....I have actual experience that says some children with terrible associated with eating will still eat super sweet foods that they really like, for a start it uses a different part of the tongue to taste and has a different texture.

Ok. I didn't understadn what you meant Posie. You're next post is clearer.

Well, I'm tired and should be relaxing so that I can sleep tonight! Being a bit arsey sorry.

A1980 - it doesn't make sense to you because you aren't phobic of foods. I'm guessing you've never had to deal with it either.

DS wouldn't/couldn't even touch slimy foods for ages, nursery and a star chart helped with that.

My sister is fruit phobic. It's not because she doesn't like it, she literally can't tolerate the texture of fruit in her mouth and the acidity of some fruit. She can tolerate cranberry juice, but nor much else. Strawberries are her idea of torture. She's 26 and is actively working on it, but she does eat loads of veg so nutritionally it's not an issue. She's been like this since a baby though, and nothing changed her.

I understand the texture thing, My dad has it with certain foods, and there are some veg that I can't touch (aubergine, pumpkin etc) and it's purely texture related. It's perfectly feasible that a toddler just can't cope with/tolerate a strange texture in their mouth. Forcing it will only make it worse IMO.

PosieParker - thanks - we actually put slices of pepper, or some peas/sweetcorn or other veg (either cooked or cold) in an egg cup next to his plate. Sometimes we say it's 'little bears dinner, you'd better not take it or little bear will be upset' but he'll lick it, at best. Like i said earlier, once he ate a pea, but it was a MASSIVE struggle for him.

Ok, about 10 posts appeared while I was writing that..

I agree with valium and A1980. If he is being offered favourite/sugary foods when he refuses his meals I don't think his behaviour sounds that out of the ordinary - most kids would eat nothing but sweets if they were allowed. Some kids also thrive on the attention they get and the control they can exert over their parents by not eating.
I don't think it is cruel to put a variety healthy meals and snacks in front of your child! A child will not starve themselves when there is food available unless there is a genuine problem and the OP isn't going to find out by offering substitutes.
I would offer healthy meals and snacks and give a reasonable time for them to be eaten and if they're not take them away without any fuss whatsoever and don't offere anything until the next meal or snack time. If your child is still refusing to eat after continuing with this for a while then I would say there's a problem that needs investigating.

read the more recent posts, pudenda

OP, the more I reread your OP the more I think there are wider issues than just food....unless your DS is very hungry, not being able to keep sugary food in the house and being obsessed is not usual.

Anyway go and have a large glass of something with your DH.