to send 4 year old ds to bed at 5pm because he won't eat anything I've made tonight or any other night?

[lotuseener]

My 4 year old has major problems with food. He has gotten progressively worse since his refusal to eat certain foods started at around 18 months. He currently will only eat plain boiled white rice, pasta with butter or cream cheese only mixed in, smooth yogurt,
weetabix, cheerios, and very occasionally toast or crackers. He will absolutely not eat any fruit or vegetables of any kind, not even potatoes. He will not eat meat, chicken or fish of any kind, not even fish fingers. He won't eat hard cheese, peanut butter,eggs, soup or fruit smoothies.

He has an absolute obsession with sugar, so much that we cannot keep any treats in the cupboards. If he knows there is a pack of biscuits in the fridge or ice lollies in the freezer he will obsess over them from the time he wakes up until the time he goes to bed. Going out anywhere that serves or sells food is extremely difficult as he obsesses about what sugary food he can get. For example, we were just at a birthday party where he refused to participate in any of the party games because he knew there was birthday cake there and couldn't focus on anything other than the birthday cake. He asked me about the cake every 5 minutes for the whole 2 hours and did nothing else at the party except cling to me and ask about the cake.

DH and I have tried all the advice we have read about- sticker charts, having him cook with me, having him shop with me, not making a big deal about it, letting him serve himself, etc, etc. A few days ago ds and I made banana bread together, but he made it very clear as we were baking that he would not eat any of it because he doesn't like bananas. He loves to cook and bake with me but will not eat what we make together.

We have made a rule that he has to eat one bite of whatever we are having for dinner before he can get up from the table and do not make special meals for him at dinner any more. This means he puts one bite in his mouth and chews and chews but physically cannot bring himself to swallow. He will either gag his food out or cry to spit it in the bin.

Of course I feel like this is all my fault and beat myself up about it constantly. I desperately want to get to the root of this and help him as I feel this has got to be something greater than just fussy eating. This causes a lot of stress for myself and dh and we fear that he isn't getting the basic nutrition he needs to thrive.

His nursery has been most unhelpful, depsite my pleas for help and advice. He will sit at snack time and pick out every sultana from his scone before he eats the scone. I have picked him up on days where they think that they have finally gotten him to have a bite of apple only to find that the apple is still in his mouth an hour and a half after snack time. As he is a Febuary birthday I have decided to defer his entry to Primary 1 largely based on his problems with eating food.

I have an appointment with the GP on Monday to demand a referral to someone, but I don't know what type of professional can help us. A dietician? I have addressed this issue with the GP before only to be told that he looks healthy and is obviously thriving.

I may be posting in the wrong place but I need some help and some advice please. I don't want to be causing more problems in the long run for my son by doing things like (calmly) sending him to bed early if he won't eat his dinner.

I've read all the op's posts - what have I missed?

If you can get your GP to agree to it you might do well to get a referral to the feeding team/clinic at Great Ormond Street Hospital (not sure where you live). They have a team that looks at children with feeding issues (including things like ASD type issues, sensory issues etc). If your child's weight is static it indicates an issue with nutrition (as do your tired at end of day comments)....just a suggestion. Not through personal experience-just know the OT who works in the clinic and she does lots of this kind of work. Good luck!!

I have to deal with more than my fair share of food related anxiety and fussiness, having 2 boys with ASD and life is so much calmer now I've reached the point where I don't get upset about it. (That was hard with DS1 because he was a good eater for ages, but then started to really over-dramatically refuse certain foods, so I was often wrong footed by him. We've had a bit of a battle regarding his behaviour when he doesn't want to eat something and I think we've finally come to some sort of understanding.)

DS2's limited palate is well entrenched and hardcore, though - he has really difficulty with certain tastes and textures and gags if he even touches certain vegetables. We quickly learnt to go with the flow and just give him what he will eat, so long as we gently push the boundaries of what is acceptable to him, because otherwise he becomes more narrow in his tastes. Quite often, I'm a bit "careless" when serving vegetables to everyone else in the house and a tiny piece of carrot or broccoli or a couple of peas "fall" onto his plate. He's slowly progressed from rejecting his food if he can see the nasty brightly coloured stuff, to picking it off himself, to just eating around it - and sometimes it falls into his mouth and sometimes it even stays there!

I will back up the suggestion to the OP that you definitely need to seek professional help. It sounds like food issues aren't your child's only problem.

Food equals control for children. That, and going to the toilet. The family focus 'should' be on meals as social, laughing time when who eats what is not noticeable. No matter what professional you get in, nobody can 'make' your child eat something.

Humans can survive on surprisingly little. It's horrid to think 'I'm not feeding my child properly', but actually you can only feed them what they will eat. Natch.

So, give your child what they will eat, and when you can see someone they admire eating something different, seat them together and notice what happens when you're not 'looking.'

Good luck. It's a horrid, horrid feeling when you're scared that your child will be malnourished, or that someone will judge you for what your child is or isn't consuming.

I do wonder if DS is ASD at times, I'm starting to notice subtle differences with him and his friends/cousins. He seems uber sensitive and his issues with food are very difficult.

Being around other children during lunch time hasn't helped at all, as was he was in private nursery he would just sit at the table during lunch timeand not eat anything except if it was a pudding he liked, which was seldom because pudding usually involved fruit of some sort.

The only other behaviour issue with him is how he interacts ds2 who is 18 months old. Ds1 is contantly pushing him, taking things from him, and is generally aggresive with him all the time. I cannot turn my back for a second as he takes whatever his brother has and doesn't hesitate to push him down, etc. I do make a big effort not to praise ds2 for eating well in case this contributes to the problem.

In response to sharing the story about the woman I know , I see how much her food issues affects her life. The people who make fun of her are being totally ridiculous and my last concern of ds's eating issues are that people may make fun of him when he is an adult. My 1st concern is that he isn't getting adequate nutrition in to his body and that his issues are a sign of something much bigger that I do not want to affect him into his adult life so much that he won't go out for a meal with friends because there is not one thing on the menu that he would eat as is the case with my friend.

I cannot begin to express the enormous amount of stress and anxiety this has caused over the last few years, not only to me and dh but probably to ds as well. The fact that what he eats is decreasing as time passes is most worrying as he used to eat scrambled eggs and peanut butter on toast so at least he was getting some protein. He will only eat the same 5 things now.

It never occured to me that his obsessive behaviours and food issues could be related and that the dr's could be testing for things like asd. I am going to do some reading tonight so I can write a very informed letter to my gp. I am a bit overwhelmed that this could be something bigger that will require professional help.

I think for now we are going to continue to limit the sugar and not make a big deal of meal time. I am defintely not going to enforce the 1 bite rule. I cannot bear to see him gag or get distressed and we keep doing the 1 bite thing thinking that tonight will finally be the night that he will eat. Clearly this hasn't worked.

I know that IABU with sending him to bed for not eating his dinner and I will not be doing that again. Thank you so much for all of you have have posted. I feel really alone and helpless in real life over this because I am unable to get people to understand just how serious ds's food issues have become.

Jareth my son is ASD and he would rather starve than allow veg or fruit to pass his lips, would become very distressed if we tried to push the issue. When we eat out we have to put a menu in front of him so he cannot see the veg on our plates. He is the same with sauces and gravies. He will come to talk to me and if I am eating anything that offends he will looking straight up to the ceiling rather than look at my plate. They are not being fussy if they are ASD they literally cannot eat the food without it beingvpainful for them because they are suffering sensory overload.

I'm actually aghast that people think that it's cruel to feed your child healthy food that everyone else is eating. It's what I've always done and I've always thought that if there is food on my childs plate and they don't eat it or don't eat much then they're not that hungry and I would maybe let them have a piece of fruit or something healthy to see them through to their next meal. Surely if your child knows that you are going to make something else that they prefer then most kids (not just sn kids) will hold out for that?

ps- we live near Edinburgh, so Sick Kids is our childrens hospital

OP, I have read your posts and think you are doing the right thing with regard to requesting some further investigation. I was reading other responses about "fussy eating" with growing impatience. There is something else going on here I think. Good Luck. Please PM me if you want to talk more .

It sounds awful for you. Really, really hope you and your family gets the help you so clearly need. And I'm glad to hear that in the meantime you're going to relax all rules concerning food and mealtimes.

You can't make someone eat something.

Good luck.

pudenda it IS cruel if a child has SN, the cannot eat the food without great distress and would in a lot of cases just not eat at all until they became really ill.

Good post missme

Yes it would be cruel if a child had sn but as far as I can see the only people who have diagnosed the ops child as having sn are people on this thread who have never met him. From what I have read they are behaving as most kids would and holding out for something better at mealtimes.

And where do I say that I give my child sweet things if he doesn't eat his healthy food because I DON'T! I cannot have sweet food in the house because he becomes freakishly obsessed with what we have in the house and it dominates every thought in his head.

Trying to get him to eat what we are eating can make him gag, cry or spit out his food,go to bed at 5 pm,lose tv priviledges... Clearly that is beyong holding out for something sweet, which he doesn't get. And yes,he will miss meal after meal if he doesn't want to eat what I have made.

Second the idea of seeking professional help, my DS 2.5 has always had a limited diet. It seems a mix of control and phobia.

Recently sought help through a sure start dietitian ( free and no referral required) he now attends a food fun group where we explore the different senses around food. Have discovered that he has sensory issues with his mouth, and is affected by smell quite a lot.

As part of this course I had to fill out loads of forms about his general behaviour and it seemed they are looking for signs of autism or other special needs, v interesting to think along these lines.

Your GP could refer you to a dietitian.

Good luck, totally understand your stress but you must try to take a mental step back and project more positive vibes to your son about food.

:(

Bollocks.

lotuseener my son will hurl himself into the kitchen against express instructions, pushing past me in order to get an item of food that he wants, no matter what sanctions I have threatened. He is awful with salt too, many are the fights when eating out as he tried to steal the salt cellar and will continue to do so no matter how many times told not to.

There are more and more things. He does do the imaginative play, though not much. He's behind with a few things (always has been, but just thought that was normal)

He's very overcautious, very aware of loud noises (recently spent an entire pantomime with his hands over his ears)

agg

I'm not necessarily saying something sweet but something that they prefer. When you say meal after meal how long have you kept up just offering what everyone else is having because a worried parent will usually crack before kids who can be very stubborn especially if they know that the parents are worried and will give in. I've seen it a lot with friends kids.
I'm not having a go - I'm just offering an alternative view to saying that your child must have sn.

Oh and dietitian advised that sugar and sugary juices raise blood sugar levels and act as an appetite supressant.

To clarify I am in no way trying to diagnose your DS with SN, just advises that this could be considered as part of an investigation into your sons eating habits

I meant he will choose to miss out on meal after meal, if I don't make him something like plain rice. I didn't mean that I will force him to miss meal after meal.
Just re read my post and had to make that clear.

pudenda, it's fine - you just don't have experience or don't understand :)

don't worry. x

Jareth I could be totally wrong, I only told you about my ds because you mentioned your own thoughts on it. Sorry if I have upset you .

Pudena it sounds a bit more than "holding out" for a treat to me.

Jareth drop the attitude I have exactly the same amount of experience with the OP's child as you - the very little that we have read on this thread.