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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think your 5 year old shouldn't be able to upset you?

192 replies

novision · 11/02/2011 13:36

My SIL told me last week that her 5 year old DD had made her cry she had been so nasty. She had got so upset that she couldn't take her to school and my MIL did it fir her.

Now my children have reduced me to tears out of sheer bloody frustration but it's never occurred to me to take it personally.

I would also never show them I was upset.

It's a genuine question. Is it better to show your children you're hurt or show no weakness?

OP posts:
ValiumSandwichTime · 12/02/2011 21:31

Shineonecrazy, I'm trying to implement a more structured chain of consequences to bad behaviour right now. I have handled things VERY badly until quite recently. I just used to shout back at her "don't you DARE talk to me like that". But there was no consequence other than her having to listen to me shout at her for a few minutes, and I've since realised that even negative attention is 'welcome' (in some bizarre way).

so, about two weeks in to the new regime, with consequences such as no icecream after dinner, no cbbc, to bed BEFORE younger brother.... things are STARTING to get a bit better. now i wouldn't say that her attitude towards me is better, but she is starting to try not to call me ugly etc. She is SO in the habit of being horrible to me.

And I know why. She is angry at her father, my x. He is so shit. He sends the kids uneven amounts of christmas presents in the post and makes them both cry for different reasons. It's HIM she hates. It's him who is 'ugly, weird, fat'.

I am not prepared to suck it up on his behalf though! but it's been a difficult learning curve for me. Have found reward charts quite difficult. Setting boundaries. Consequences etc....

The Incredible Years by Caroline Webster-strattan is helping me.

Lonnie · 12/02/2011 21:58

My kids have seen me cry on several occations.

Happy tears
Unhappy tears

sad tears
Frustrated tears

tears over books movies stories even mumsnet (that lady in canada at christmas time whom thought she was unable to make Christmas for her dd made me sob several times as I read her post)

They have also seen me cry because of wonderful things they have done.

They understand tears is a form of emotion It can mean many things and sometimes its wonderful sometimes its not at all.
It doesnt make me weak nor does it make me a bad mother it makes me the person "i" am their mother..

I would never allow their behaviour to do so I wa unable to take them to school, It is more likely I will preach to them on teh entire drive about how badly behaved I felt they were..

But Not once have I left them at the school gate aftre such a moment without a " I love you very much"

Onetoomanycornettos · 12/02/2011 22:00

ValiumST, sounds like you are doing well at 'resetting' things, I've also found that simply walking out of the room works pretty well if my eldest starts saying horrible things (not necessarily about me, but expressing frustration but in a nasty way). I just say 'I don't like what you are saying' and walk out. Takes the whole sting away and stops the attention.

And, although it's quite easy to scare a small child into not saying nasty things to you (I found this easy anyway up til very recently), mine has been going through a teenage phase (though not a teenager) which I never thought I'd have to tolerate (eye rolling, cheekiness, boundary pushing). I find myself quite wrong-footed. You can find yourself having to develop a whole new set of parenting repertoire (a good bollocking which others have suggested and which I always did in the past now just escalates things now whereas then it would have worked). Hope you get on ok.

ValiumSandwichTime · 12/02/2011 22:24

thanks onetoomany, it's tough alright. I never thought that she'd have this much toooood.

I think part of the problem was that I was coming down on her like a ton of bricks for ever minor misdemeanour, but I wasn't actually taking away any privileges, I was just giving her negative attention, and as I hadn't been giving her enough positive attention it was just a disaster.

working9while5 · 13/02/2011 01:56

Morloth, I don't understand why crying is equated with respect?

My mother is about to begin a Nationally Important Job . She was once a broken woman with an abusive alcoholic husband who remade her life, too.

She has - shock! horror! - told me that she has found herself on the verge of tears at work over the years but has learned to contain it because, of course, it's associated with things like "weakness" and "lack of self control" and "respect".

Culturally, it is a massive no-no here, I can see, but the values attached to it seem to me to be disproportionate: the positive values attached to stoicism particularly so. It's one way of expressing a range of emotions, that's all.

My father (aforementioned alcoholic) also weeps. Frequently. I have no respect for his tears whatsoever. However, that's got sod all to do with socially contructed value judgements about crying and everything to do with experience constructred value judgements about him.

working9while5 · 13/02/2011 01:57

constructed

Morloth · 13/02/2011 02:42

Because allowing a small childs attempts at manipulation to make you upset and cry is a bit of a weakness IMO and I find it hard to respect anyone that soft.

My Mother cried, she cried when my father died, she cried when we had to shoot a large number of the livestock because of a drought, she cried when my sister had a stillbirth, she cried with me when my horse had to be shot (not least because of the expense I suspect now).

But she would never have been so soppy and soft as to allow my (or my siblings) silly behaviour to affect her deeply. Quite frankly because she has/had bigger fish to fry.

I was raised in a harsh place that creates harsh/hard people because weakness could very well get you killed.

I find it impossible to respect weakness and I view sobbing and taking to your bed over a 5 year old's words as a weakness.

CheerfulYank · 13/02/2011 02:58

Good Lord, Morloth! Your mother sounds a wonder. I'm picturing the movie "Australia" right now for some reason. Blush

I have cried when DS has been nasty. (He's only 3, so has not been serious) I walked away and locked myself the bathroom to get myself under control, because I didn't want him to see that he could manipulate me that way. I do tell him that he makes me very angry or sad though, because I think it's important for him to realize that his actions and words have consequences. (Of course I stress that I still love him very much, and that you can love someone and still be angry/saddened by what they've done) Taking to your bed seems a bit Hmm IMO.

Valiumsandwich I'm glad you're taking steps to reset things. Good luck! I used to work with teenage boys who were nasty and would say anything to get under your skin...I used to tell them that they could think and feel whatever way they wanted, certainly, but they would be behave repectfully or pay the consequences. :)

nooka · 13/02/2011 05:58

My parents never showed their emotions healthily, never argued properly, never showed they were upset, and it really really messed me and my siblings up because they didn't model normal emotional responses. Small children cry frequently, so why do we imagine that it would be scary to see a parent cry? Why is it seen as a sign of weakness - is that what we tell them when they cry? I think that this is a bit of a dangerous route to go down. Plus children aren't stupid, they soon learn the clues that you are angry or very unhappy regardless of how you express it (and frequently learn to do the same themselves).

I don't think that my children have reduced me to tears (they might have, but it's not the sort of thing I am likely to remember), but my dh certainly has, and vice versa. What they have seen is both the upset and the recovery, and I think that's very important. Likewise with rows. Tears, like laughter, shouting etc are just a normal part of life. A parent suffering from depression or not coping is another matter, but the occasional bucket of tears is really not that big a deal.

Morloth · 13/02/2011 06:12

Yeah, won't be mentioning 'Australia' to Mum anytime soon as a comparison. Wink

Oblomov · 13/02/2011 08:34

I never cried over a silly thing. I cried over a serious thing that had been going on for moer than 2 years. Ds1's Persistent bad behaviour that defied all logic/ all sensible parenting rules. I had begged and begged for help. And never got it. Even when I went missing becasue of such a bad diabetic hypo.And then finally someone suggested my son was SN. And it all made sense. And since then they stopped bothering to suggest different parenting techniques, becasue most of it, I could teach them a thing-or-two.

Yet, I do agree with the poster that said you give them a powerful yet frightening hold over you. That is true because that happened to me and my son, and we are subsequently having to address that.

But my situation is a bit more complex.

As far as Op, is concerned, any child, 5, who can make a mum cry over a couple of silly things on a bad day, is just ridiculous.
No one should be doing this. Becasue if you are, then you are probably a bit unbalanced.

But maybe there is more to this than meets the eye. I bet there is. Who knows what alcoholism, abuse, SN, or bad parenting lies behind this.
Lets hope so, becasue if its not, and it just a bit of 5 year old silliness, then that is ridiculous.

LeQueen · 13/02/2011 11:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

working9while5 · 13/02/2011 11:43

I still don't get it, I'm afraid.

There are degrees of tears, as there are laughter. Brief eye-watering or a trembling lip isn't quite the same as "taking to your bed and sobbing" and to be honest, if someone is doing this over a 5 year old's comments I would be highly surprised if there wasn't something more at work (e.g. depression).

There are cultures where people cry and wail for days when a family member dies and will sit and cry with anyone who loses someone. It is completely acceptable and even expected. In Ireland, if someone dies tragically, the whole church will cry with the bereaved. From discussions with friends/colleagues etc, that would be considered terribly unseemly and out of control in some circles here and even crying at your own parents' funerals is not necessarily the norm. In the past, living would have been very harsh in some places in Ireland e.g. the islands etc but "keening" at funerals and American wakes was part of the tradition. From my understanding of my grandparent's generation, say, if a woman had cried at something trivial in the home no one would have batted an eyelid but it was different for men (unless they were singing songs and sobbing into their pints, which was also generally part of the culture). To me, that says a lot about how crying is seen as weak as associated with women etc.

I thinkm personaly, whether tears are over serious or trivial things is neither here nor there: it's what they mean in the context of the person and the situation and how you would generally construe their actions etc. And yes, of course in some situations, tears might be seen as "weak" and perhaps sometimes they are. However, that is both individually and socially constructed. I remember seeing my grandfather (mother's father) shed a tear at the Sound of Music when I was 10 or 11. I couldn't understand it because it seemed pretty boring to me but if it made me change my opinion of him it was in a good way. He was usually a terribly stern man, prone to being "vexed" at children's behaviour (and then woe betide you!) so in some respects, it was good to see another side, some softness. In later years, I realised that the reason he had shed this tear (in a very refined way, I might add) was not because of the film, but because his twin sister had just been diagnosed with end-stage cancer (unbeknownst to me at the time). That added a poignancy to my memory, but it didn't transform it from one of disgust at his soppy weakness to understanding as it was something worthy of tears iyswim.

nooka · 13/02/2011 20:30

I don't see tears as weakness. My family is very traditional "stiff upper lip" and find any display of emotions very difficult and off putting. When my niece died her family keened at the funeral (they are Ghananian /Irish) it was troubling for me to see emotions so obviously displayed, but I suspect it was a great deal more healthy. In some ways I was quite impressed that they were able to show their feelings so openly and at no point did I think they were weak for doing so. My understanding is that wakes are cathartic.

Obviously grieving is a bit different from getting upset at something a child says, but if you start from the position that tears are a perfectly natural and normal part of life then I think it takes you in a slightly different direction than the scorn that seems to be a fair amount of the response here.

I'd be asking the SIL if she was alright, and wondering if she was depressed, stressed from some other factor (is her marriage OK, have there been family issues, illness etc) or if something was not quite right in her relationship with her child (I have a friend whose ds has ODD and his behaviour would be enough to reduce me to tears most days to be honest, and I'm not a big crier).

FunnysInTheGarden · 13/02/2011 21:53

Agree nooka that tears are not nec a sign of weakness. And anyway showing weakness can sometimes be a healthy emotion, believe it or not LeQ and Morloth.

For some reason this thread has turned into who is the hardest mum thread. Well not me, and nor would I wish it be so.

lurkerspeaks · 13/02/2011 21:57

My friends 4 yo asked me why I had puffy legs and a few other things when we went swimming.

He meant my cellulite/general overweight ness. . As I am very aware of my weight, I accept that I'm overweight, but didn't think I was quite clear the swimming pool fat, I found this ridiculously hurtful.

poochela · 13/02/2011 22:11

what did the child do exactly that the mother was so upset she couldn't take her to school? What's really going on here?

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