to think your 5 year old shouldn't be able to upset you?

[novision]

My SIL told me last week that her 5 year old DD had made her cry she had been so nasty. She had got so upset that she couldn't take her to school and my MIL did it fir her.

Now my children have reduced me to tears out of sheer bloody frustration but it's never occurred to me to take it personally.

I would also never show them I was upset.

It's a genuine question. Is it better to show your children you're hurt or show no weakness?

Agreed

Like shouting/hitting, I do think that something that started as an involuntary bad day-type thing, can creep into becoming a habit. You can almost convince yourself that it's justified, especially if it works. Maybe that's when it becomes manipulation ... not sure, just thinking aloud

Baroque - X posted with you. Yes, I think that was my experience too. I wasn't equipped to express feelings - especially anger. It's the other extreme, isn't it?

I'm back!

It wasn't that she cried, I do it all the time, but that she was so explicit that it was her DD that made her cry, and Granny had to take over. Puts her on the child's level.

I have told DH off often for getting into squabbles with DC and behaving as if they were equals.

When I have cried because of dc behaviour I have tried to control it. Calmy explaining that mummy is sad, rather than wailing uncontrollably.

that's interesting novision. I have found that is one of the hardest things with the age-group 3- 6 ish. Not getting to teenage -type arguments and putting yourself on their level

OTOH - if it's not a regular occurrence then I wouldn't stress about it

yes JLC - it's the opposite extreme I guess of what others on this thread have experienced.

I sometimes wish I could cry in front of them - that I could show them they've upset me. If they upset a child at school/playgroup/at home (ie a sibling) chances are that child will cry. It shows that really really vile behaviour can hurt. I don't there would be any harm to them if once in a while when they've been really really awful and upset me if they saw me.

Obviously wouldn't want to use it as a maniuplation tool, as a way of "making" them behave - but sometimes, when the 3 of them get going............well those tears would probably best coming out there and then with a "mummy was upset by your behaviour but I still love you".

My mother lacked the ability to cry quietly (hence me hearing her even at 12 midnight when I Was "asleep"). I (thankfully) have perfected the silent crying - so it gets pent up and comes out in floods long after they've gone to bed - anger, upset, hurt - all just comes out in a Amazon filling stream of tears.

I wouldn't agree that bursting into tears in front of your children is necessarily emotional blackmail. As someone else put it,it is no worse that screaming, slapping or cold shouldering a child. All of them make a child feel bad in different ways. A child who is screamed at will feel helpless and scared, a child who is slapped will feel helpless and angry and a child who is cold shouldered will feel helpless and bewildered. But parents are people and I'm sure most of us did feel that helplessness at times as children but it wasn't deliberate on our parents' part.

Crying doesn't necessarily represent loss of control to me in a bad way, it's just an expression of distress. If you try to eliminate any sign that you have any feelings as a parent, that coldness can be scary in itself (thinking of one of my own parents here). Engaged loving parents, who cry once or twice a year from frustration, anger and so on, I see this is quite normal.

My husband comes from a culture in which it is quite normal to cry loudly down the phone to your adult children telling them how much they have let you down, weep and wail and generally perform the upset Momma routine all the time. He finds crying once or twice a year in front of the children to be positively repressed.

Everyone has different experiences though.

Some will remember the worst thing ever as seeing a parent crying, others being shouted at, others being treated to big doses of sarcasm, others being threatened, others being laughed at when bad things happened to them, others not feeling that their parents responded to them emotionally at all.

The idea that crying is the absolute worst thing you can do in front of a child is just not correct in my view. It depends on the family and the personalities and why there are tears and so on.

TSC - that's why I'm so worried about the teenage years. I'm worried I will go back to that "button-pressing" time.

My father was very repressed when cross( he didn't have a nice childhood),I found it terrifying to be frank.I remember him crying once and being sooooo relieved that he was human.It made us closer in a way,I remember cuddling him and him genuinely being touched.

All I'm saying is it's healthy to be human. I've always wanted my kids to know it's ok to express emotion.I was always the naughty kid in trouble for expressing herself. Never want my kids to feel bad about expressing their emotions. I also think shouting(occasionally),sulking(occasionally),bottling it up(occasionally) is ok etc. Obviously extreme day in and day out behaviour whatever it is isn't going to be good.

" I would repress it, but feel bitterly hurt inside, "

But wouldn't it help if you could kearn to cry and not to repress ?

I never repress. My mum is so loving thta I am able to tell her anything and can be so open about my emotions.

I don' cry that often, but when I do I really really sob. so healing. the outlet of emotion. I find it totally liberating and feel so much better afterwards.

I think it's really different with teenagers TSC. My mum crying actually really jolted me out of my vile selfish behaviour - because I had no idea how much I was upsetting her.

Small children (which is what the OP is talking about) are a different kettle of fish. I'm not advocating maintaining a stiff upper lip - I'm horribly sentimental and cried during Toy Story 3.

I think the difference is if you are crying over something your small child has done which brings you down to their level. Children say all sorts of stuff but I don't believe a 5YO has the emotional intelligence to deliberately be really 'nasty'. My DS is always telling me that he doesn't want to be my best friend any more. If I were also 4, that might upset me. But I'm not, I'm an adult and I know he loves me more than anything in the world.

Interesting this idea that 5yr olds don't have the emotional intelligence to deliberately be nasty.

That therefore must mean that there are no bullies in Reception or YR1.

How refreshing and what a wonderful new phenomena - I had no idea.

Baroque - I think that children can be bullied and teased in Reception/Year 1. I would question whether the perpetrators have the emotional intelligence to put themselves in the shoes of those they are bullying. Where it happens the bullying child needs to be "helped" - to help them understand the effects of their behaviour, and to help them. Sometimes young children pick on others because they are being bullied and have no power themselves

Wow - used help several times there!

I speak as the mother of someone who has been bullied, BTW

I HAD 3 UNDER 5 and you could find me rocking in front of the washing machine on more than the 'occasional' occasion.

we are all good at different things. i wsn't good with small people. i am better with older children.

and sometimes i think its a good thing, y;know...to just put out there....we don't all have the emotional capacity to deal with babies and toddlers. or as i like to call them

leaches, blood sucking, life draining leaches

I love babies and toddlers now I don't have any ...

ahh - you see the people that bullied me didn't have anyone else picking on them.

I guess I just find it interesting that we say "don't give in to your child's tantrums at age 18months/2yrs/3yrs otherwise they'll learn they can control you". Which to mean as always meant - they're learning they'll get an (emotional) response.

Yet 2 or 3yrs later they have no emotional understanding of how their words and actions can hurt people

FWIW - if I had the ability to cry in front of my children then I probably wouldn't want to take tem to school either. I look bloody awful when I've cried - whether it's been for 30 seconds or 1/2hr

Actually I've just remembered I did cry once in front of DS3.......and it was absolutely bloody hysterical........though I had no control of that at all and I make no apologies for not having control over it all either (wasn't anything to do with DS3 - he just happened to be present). I had no control, and I don't think I could have done eeven with the best will in the world.

Though I don't fancy being anywhere like that again just to illicit the "it's ok to sometimes cry in front of your children" response.