To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

I think it's the headline writers who are guilty of idiocy.

Calling for better integration of all communities, and having the strengths and qualities of all communities thus included, is a positive step.

I heard the speech. I don't disagree with it.

Multiculturalism has failed is a headline, designed by journalists to hook you into reading the article.... It worked didn't it?

I don't agree with everything he's got to say on the subject but at least he is addressing a concern that many people have. Labour buried their head in the sand and would not even begin a discussion on the subject.

(Cannot believe I've just defended the Tories and me being a Northerner too!! Hangs head in shame)

I agree with this.

"We have failed to provide a vision of society to which they feel they want to belong. We have even tolerated these segregated communities behaving in ways that run counter to our values."

Why come to this country at all if it is your intention to segregate yourself from its society and then ship your children back to your country of origin at age 16 in order to prevent them marrying someone from the UK or outside your religion or race.

Let's not pretend it does not happen.

Yep blame the Headline. I don't see anything else wrong on that link.

Oh i don't disagree with the general sentiments of the speech.

I just question the timing of it. surely someone in his office would have known about the march

And discussing immigration and multiculturism does not mean a person is Racist.

I am thinking far far broader than Muslim people by the way.

I also worry that this will be read by the more right wing amongst "us" and taken as permission to hold ignorant and fascist views.

I think all the points DC made are totally valid & relevant.
Nothing to incite tensions or infuriate surely?

What offends you Op, about the speech in particular?

posting from a different perspective, is it always that people don't want to belong, I think there is an element of feeling that you cannot

there is a real undercurrent of 'immigrants are changers who come here to take advantage and are out to do us wrong'

the uk doesn't seem to do a good job of making people feel like thy can integrate- it feels like you can try and adapt, fit in etc but in the eyes of your countrymen you will always be other

I have no idea how to fix this or change it

He's trying to distract us from the way he's shafting the country. That's all.

The term "multiculturalism" is meaningless anyway. What's the alternative? Monoculturalism?

By allowing and supporting state-funded faith schools, he proves that he doesn't give a stuff about integration anyway.

Penelope Right wing people don't need 'permission' to hold ignorant and facist views...it's their right.

Not that all right wing people are ignorant and facist.

Ok, just read above posts that it is the timing of the speech you don't like.

Tbh- there will always be trouble no matter wherever & whenever these EDL marches are.

Chancers not changers!

nowhere in the speech was there any acceptance of this subject giving permission for EITHER minority or majority to hold views that would be offensive to the other.

Extremism on either 'side' is wrong and will seemingly now be called as such.

yes yes it is purely the timing of it that surprised me.

As i say, i think the debate needs to happen.

WE have been so frightened to properly discuss the issues surrounding immigration and integration for fear of being labeled racist that we just seem to have allowed things to spiral out of control.

But by having the statement come out yesterday/today it looks like it was almost designed to hit the headlines at the same time as the EDL march, andmany will see that as Dc agreeing with their ideals.

Which i sincerely hope isn't the case

Do right wing people value DCs opinion in order to legitimise their views?

I don't think they feel they need his permission.

YABU. I think it was a good speech. Too often well-meant 'multiculturalism' efforts have resulted in a keeping people far too separate from mainstream society and created cultural ghettos instead. An objective of much better integration, whilst respecting cultural differences, has to be the way forward. He can't help the timing of an EDF march...

'EDL are the BNP with more hair'. So true!
Not bothered to read the speech as IMO DC has no idea about RL anyway.

permission maybe the wrong word.

validation then maybe?

He's just saying that Labour was an out and out failure.

Suppose that's part of his job.

I think he is right there isn't a sense of belonging many don't see themselves as one with the country. You go to America despite their problems and the different races/cultures they still all see themselves as American and are proud a feeling you don't get as such in the UK across the cultural groups, there is a divide. A divide which can be (and is) exploited. Rather than acknowledging this glaring problem we as a nation have avoided the topic.

Does he have a point? yes and no it is not racist to say so, but it is how you go about something that makes it all the more meaningful and worthwhile. Of course it is not possible in many cases for different cultures to merge and live side by side and usually there will be conflict if the baseline is religious. The questions I would like to ask are: what is expected of other cultures in this country? How do we assess how integrated they are? Whose responsibilty is it when thinsg gow rong. i:e the clash is detrminetal to the vast society?
Cameron seems now to be alluding to the final of my above questions by saying the responsbility lies within the people belonging to the particular culture and in this case the whole Muslim population in the UK, but what and how does he expect this to become a functional, feasible policy or whatever without it actually exacerbating the already existent conflict?
hmmm..very interesting times these are..

chibi I've gotten that attitude a lot (I'm an immigrant from the States, and a religious minority). There is a lot of attiude that XYZ is British, and any change or acknowledgment of immigrants is an attack on the 'proper' British. I get regular rants (even from my in-laws) that immigrants are destroying this or that (particularly Christmas. Apparently acknowledgement that some people don't celebrate it and/or celebrate something else is very destructive).

And even though my children have a British father, and only have British citizenship, they were classified at birth as "White Other" because of me. I was pretty much laughed at when I said they should be considered British.