To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

Bring- Thanks so much for bringing that to my attention, lets talk about racism shall we?

Unless you've asked all the presumably dark skinned men who you've walked past, their religion, I'm guessing you just assume they're muslims?

MY religion? MY religion? WHen did I say I was a muslim?

Ohhhh you presume because I'm Arabic that I MUST be a Muslim?

How about that for British people presuming things about people THEY DON'T KNOW.

There you go LadyOfTheManor. Enlighten yourself.

Star- that depends on whether or not you dress like a two dollar hooker.

Sorry, please do define your "heritage". I'd like to answer the question but I'm unsure what it is you have to do to be British

OK, now please get me something that isn't from Wikipedia.

OR tell me what it is that makes you British...a red passport? White skin? The right to choose to marry? THe right to vote? Red buses?

I AM NOT WHITE. If you had bothered to read what I wrote on the previous page, you would have realised that.

I meant plural "you".

So define it?

From the Wikipedia site..I pretty much qualify;
I speak English (fluently)
I have a MA in English Lit and am working toward my PHD
I prepare English meals (not fish and chips but roast meats)
I go to the theatre

So do I qualify? Or is there more to being British than was revealed in that oh so helpful article you supplied?

And to be frank, you obviously know everything there is to know about British culture hence why you clearly detest it so much, and want to shield your son from it.

Or is it enough that you had to GOOGLE "what is being British all about" in order to find something?

where i live the majority of muslim men dress in traditional dress. i am quite worldly and can recognise the difference from say an indian hindu male to a practicing religious muslim chap. it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin, alot of black men and white men have become muslims, if they were religious i could recognise them, when you live where i do it is not hard. this is an observation, nothing to do with being racist. you can't go round labelling everyone racist, this is a dangerous thing to do as it breeds racism and i am not racist but i am not happy with the amount of immigration this country has had. i have a friend in my street, she is a hindu lady and she is RAMPANT with anti immigration comments, i have to laugh (to her face) as her views shock me. she has lived here since the 50's and too thinks it is too much

Congratulations, you have a degree. I bow to your clearly superior intellect. Doesn't make you any less of a hypocrite though. Funny that.

But you can't tell me what British culture is? You claim to be British and you can't tell me what it is you're so proud about or what is so great-or, to you, what the whole wide world is so desperate to be?

Look LadyOfTheManor, the bottom line is that you really should leave if the 'two dollar hookers', teenage mothers and dole-scum upset you so much. I repeat, why continue living here if you hate it so much. Sod the reasons you gave before, if you hated it so much, you would leave. There is no ball and chain keeping you here.

Bring-So what about you assuming that I'm a Muslim?

Star- What on Earth am I being hypocritical about? Please, I've asked you to define this wonderful culture you speak of.

Well, can you define Arabic culture in a nutshell?

LOTM - You are acting like your culture is in some ways superior to British culture, making you hypocritical.

BTW, I am mixed of different cultural backgrounds including Arabic with the religion of Sunni Islam. The literature does NOT ask women to cover themselves in such a manner and this was created by a patriarchal system in order to keep women under the thumb. There is no proof that women are supposed to dress that way and for that reason, the women in my family have not for two generations.

But you are quite right, there are many other religions in Arabic culture including Christianity and even Jahovas Witnesses on a smaller scale. People just make assumptions without taking the time to learn about other culures.

Star I'm here due to working comittments, and of course the fact that I am now British and have every right to be :)

I was just wondering what on Earth is is about this culture that you are so aggressively defending, every post you have avoided the question.

There are lots of aspects I'd like open to my son, but plenty of them I'd rather not. But you have to understand I come from a culture where it isn't funny or clever to "flash yourself" at passers by, or be passed out drunk on the pavement. And no, not every British person is like this, but the kind of people who will be influencing my son, if I don't control it, will be.

Oh cos the ME/North Africa is doing so well in running things for themselves, right?

The whole region is under the KOSH FGS, In syria they use another word for Lion (Assad) in case there are secret police listening thinking they are criticising Pres Assad and have them arrested and vanished.

People have to be free, they have to have the right to think and to thrive.

So LotM, you are just judging someone elses country from seeing a town/society from afar?

That's wrong.

If you see all sorts of people then surely you must concede that they do not dress like hookers of any denomination, and do not all have their DC at 16.

That comment of yours was highly judgemental of you and very ugly.

If you genuinely can't come to terms with living among British people then that is up to you, but please don't come on here slagging off the entire society due to YOUR culture shock.

Either find out what it is you can't handle and attempt to come to terms with it, change it or let it go. I lived in Egypt for 3 long and utterly miserable years. I tried every way I could to find a way to accept life there, but short of a lobotomy/religious conversion it was never ever going to happen. I just couldn't live like that.

'H' and I always agreed that our DS would be educated and live back in my country, the UK and we moved back 18m ago.

The former Govts in both US and UK, like that dictator in Egypt thrived on putting the fear of god into us, so they could get to do what they wanted to do. It kept them all in a job. Sure there is a threat there, but not to the extent they were playing on it.

It'll take time for the change in thinking to trickle down to the street, but I'm hopeful moderate and everyday islam will take fundamentalism in hand and do all it can to protect vulnerable people from these warped ideologies. They do this through fear and oppression. Islam is about to take a much closer look at itself IMHO, and I think there are a few very welcoming changes on the way. Changes for the good of everyone.

I'd also like to see nationality coming first, then religion, then can we have much more in common and will stick together as a society.. I can but hope.

I come from a culture where it isn't considered funny to ""flash yourself" at passers by, or be passed out drunk on the pavement." I am British.

lady - tbh, i think you are the racist one here. you seem to have made it clear that you don't like much about the british people. you seem to, as is quite typical of someone sometimes who is not english, wanting to make everyone else racist ie your comment in response to one of my posts, implying that what i had said was based purely on the males skin colour. you see, i actually don't have a problem with mixing with other cultures, i have always been a lefty, went out with a black chap for four years, around half of my friends, close friends, are a mixture of black and asian so for someone like me to be made out to have had a problem with someone because of their skin colour is really irritating. my whole problem is being fed up with the fact that a dominant culture where i live won't mix with us, i don't mean i expect them to have rost beef on a sunday and watch corronation street on tv but to be so openly closed off and not even hide their distate and labelling english to be under dressed alcholholics is really annoying. it is like playing the race card, mentioning the mans skin colour, that makes my bloody boil. i feel the traditionally dress males where i live look either through me or as if i am naked and i cover up, i do not like tight revealing clothes, in any way shape or form, and oh yes, i do not drink , i never have, i don;'t like it, oh, and i don't smoke, i am a good old fashioned english lady who as it so happens does like roast beef (i don't watch corrie' though) :). i just want everyone to get on and live nicely together. i used to live in notting hill, lived there for ten years, bloody LOVED it. now that WAS multiculturism that worked. english people and alot of people from ie the west indies, people got on fantasticlly, you just don't get that with the muslim culture, although in saying that sometimes it does but quite rare

LDN- You're right the Qu'ran doesn't say this, however, a lot of the women choose to do it, especially outside of their home countries, more of a security "blanket" than anything else.

Star; hmm Arab culture, from where I'm from, is about respect. The majority of my culture is based upon family life, to have and raise children successfully. To have babies outside of marriage is unheard of, women sometimes work depending on what they want to do. Unlike Britain, the majority of socialising is done around the table in the afternoons when we eat. We, also, drink a lot of tea. WE dress modestly and don't raise our voices, or swear or disrespect people in public (any people). We pride ourselves on working hard and keeping a family unit, I'm also from one of the few countries that speaks 4 fluent languages. My culture is about embracing life, and family and taking care of other people-seeing a random child in the street, you return to his/her mother (without the fear of being called a paedophile) etc we socialise around dancing in our own homes also...
Yes there's a massive tourist industry around the place I'm from-sadly our locals are not so friendly to them and if foreign holiday makers walk around in a bikini they are sometimes spat at (despicable before you flame me) and sometimes they are greeted and made to feel at home.

Am puzzled by LoTM's arguments. Every culture/country has negatives of course. You seem determined to focus on the downside of British culture when there is so much good. Its sad that you choose to take such a dark view of your adopted country.

I travelled in Arab countries in my twenties. Not in tourist hot spots and I covered up and was careful how I behaved yet received more misogynistic abuse in the few weeks I was there than in a lifetime in England. I certainly didnt witness much "respect" to me as a white woman.

Don't get me wrong there are aspects I love about Britain-many of them. But these are not portrayed to the elders from other countries.

I'm easy to be influenced, I've been here for 10 years I get the gist of what's going on, and yes initially it was a culture shock, doesn't mean I approve of some things.

I'm not a Muslim and I don't wear a hijab but I have no problem with those that are/do.

I don't mean to come across as racist-I'm against the masses clearly. I mean as British people, some of you must have some problems with how your own society runs-as I do for back home (cutting off hands for stealing, honour killings )

Because British culture is so diverse and rich, I couldn't contain it in a nutshell. We have such a history that I couldn't possibly write it all down on an MN post. We have made so many contributions to the World, musically, scientifically and historically. Why should I have to define British culture to you? I was born here and I'm proud to be English, and British.

kerela, you won't because the idiots men (the majority) see Western women as...loose (? is that the nicest way to put that?) and they won't respect them. But the majority of the men in my country are a bunch of tossers in that respect.

Shame really.