To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

You don't have to take up nationality to remain here. I'm just not too sure by what this means;
"Take up the British values".

How so?

LIke many people have pointed out, all British people are different and behave in different ways, so how does one attempt to "fit in" with British society?

While David Cameron makes a very good and impotant point, actions speak louder than words.

I want to know how this will be addressed. Things like faith schools actively isolate different cultures.

I suspect that as usual for the tories, this is just words and PR.

Hear hear, LMHF. I think people do need to try to fit in and assimilate. IMO we have been tolerant and welcoming and at times pandered far too much to other cultures to the detriment of our own.

Working in education I would say that is definitely the case.

Also I have 3 teenagers (2 dd) and they are hardworking, respectful and dress appropriately. However, it is up to them to make their choices in life and chose their own partners etc. I don't think you can stereotype British/English people anymore than people from Asia who may be Moslem or christian.

Please explain to me how one must "fit in" what measures must someone take to "fit in".

Can you please give a concrete example of how we have pandered to other countries to the detriment of our own?

Shutting all faith schools would certainly help social cohesion.

The way this thread has gone has made me think that maybe DC was right (saddens me to say).

But multi-culturalism isn't about having a mono-culture, it is about accepting other people's cultures and realising Britain is all the better and more interesting for that diversity. Rather than trying to stop people just living the way they want to (unless they are killing each other etc, but that is not culturally specific!).

Well said Manatee.

alemci - Ummm.... Nooooo.... Not quite.

I agree TheCrackfox and HHLimbo

with schooling alone it is constantly in our faces the over the top pandering to the muslim community. even a note went out in the kids school bags about not wanting to 'offend other communities' when a request went out to see if the children wanted to order christmas cards or not. you never hear a peep from hindus, jews etc but muslims are quite vocal about complaining at the slightest thing, they seem to twist it and make it a personal insult. i know this for a fact as i know two dinner ladies and someone else who works at dd's school, a fair few muslim mothers have complained about a/the holocaust being mentioned in class discussions and also them being cross and not wanting their off spring to go to visit a church and a synogogue whilst all the other kids quite happily visited other religions places of worship as they found it both enlightening and interesting, its good to learn and admire other religions. my dd knows all about eid and the festival of lights but it appears that there have been many complaints about christmas related things so much so that various things ie the school christmas play is now generally about a snowman etc sos not to offend. it is things like this that have annoyed people. this is still a christian country and i must add that i am not of the christian faith. this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Haven't read this thread, I know what all you liberal loveys will be bleating...........

However, move along people, where's the news here? Could have told you this little snippet of information about 15 years ago!!!

My experience of state education to date (non faith) is that schools end up watering down absolutely everything as not to offend and in the name of 'equality' - so christmas celebratations have no faith theme - hindu celebratations are just about dancing and have no religious meaning etc. I don't think my kids will learn much about other cultures in school.

However, my experience has been that people of all backgrounds and faiths usually join in with everything with no issues at all. No idea where your kids are schooled bringnbuy!

It's funny you mention that Christmas has "no faith value" when at Christmas time on MN most people don't believe "but do it anyway".

if the shoe were on the other foot and hundreds of thousands of say christians went to live in pakistan and expected the country to adapt to them and reject and looked down upon their daily life ways of that country don't tell me the locals would be happy with that. if alot of people from a different culture/country move to one place and do not make the attempt to mix and go as far to openly put down the culture of the country they chose to live in then this is awful. you cannot blame british people for being fed up with it and more so, not being able to say so. britain is a fantastic country, it provides a wealth of love and joy to so many people, why else would so many people from so many countries want to come and live here but there is alot about the british culture that has changed for the worse, things are very different now to how they were when i was growing up and this saddens me tremendously ie the way alot of kids dress and behave but not all british kids are like this but it is easier to label all the same as it makes people feel self righteous and its an excuse to make no effort to have anything to do with them. english people are mostly welcoming and open minded about immigration but you have too many people coming in too fast and from too different a culture and something is going to give eventually. it was bound too. it can also affect peoples ability to get drs appointments, social housing/schooling etc, this has caused alot of bad feeling within the community. I hear the way alot of people feel due to what i do for a living, people (british working class especially) feel let down.

I'm coming to this party late and not yet had time to read everyone's posts (tho will do so) but just 2 things to say:

1. to those who says it's the headline that's the problem --> the speech was clearly sent round the papers in advance as it was on the morning's news and he gave the speech later in the day. DC's PR team will have spun it in a particular way and will almost certainly be behind the 'multiculturalism has failed' synopsis. If not, then why are they not spinning back the other way to say that the press has miscontrued the message....

1. Why the hell has he made a speech about multiculturalism in the UK....in Germany? Any ideas?

And again LadyOfTheManor you miss the point Christmas is just as much about tradition as it is religion IMHO

I am an Immigrant to this country, have been here for 16 years. Yes probably made easier that I am white and from and english speaking country but it was still a MAJOR culture shock.

I had to adapt to a different way of english, beleive me even though I spoke english many things are different still. Different food, work ethic and political system. As time went on a different way of bringing up children and schooling system. Generally now my home countries ways are alien to me.

Guess what I am saying is that I adapted to what has now become my home. I will always be a New Zealander, but Britain is my home.

Having travelled quite a bit before settling I can honestly say that Britain is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. This is a very positive thing on one hand and allows so many cultures to live hand in hand. But on the other hand it allows a small minority of each group to be separate and insular, British included.

Concerning point no 2 Bookworm,

Is it because you think they are all a big bunch of Nazi's and want to hear this or hopefully because Angela Merkel said the same thing herself!!

If it's the latter, I must admit I was thinking the same thing.

Well I'll be hated for this, but nzshar mostly European immigrants do tend to settle into and adapt to other European cultures that they may migrate too....However, some religious, ethnic, foreign groups just "don't get that" and can't understand why their host country don't change to thier way of life and culture.

Some People get very angry about this but I believe it is the responsibility of the person who comes to a new country in the beginning to make the effort and fit in, rather than the indigineous being expected to.....

giveitago - dd goes to school in east london

Thanks dobiegirl. Actually, I would have had the same comment had he made the point in any other country in the world. Just seems an odd point to make when not on home soil to be honest. But thanks for your insightful suggestions.

the C of E school in our are is always oversubscribed but they take other faiths as well. I don't think it should be shut down.

my DC do not attend a faith school.

bringnbuy you follow on from what i was saying.

also wasn't there a case about a christian women in Pakistan who faced the death penalty for apparently speaking out against the profit Mohammed.

also my grandparents were immigrants.

Oh perleessse, it's not Morocco is it? Surely not, it can't be THAT easy could it? That'd be even better than East Africa!

'Lady' sadly you are proving DC right, you are exactly who he is talking to, racism back at the society that has willingly accepted you in it.

nzshar, that was a lovely post.

Basic, bottom line, if you migrate somewhere, fit in, learn the language and accept the beliefs of your chosen location. Do not ask the area you move to, to adapt to you. As for religeous schools, scrap them all. If I moved to an arab state, I would wear a head scarf. If someone from an arab state moves to the UK, do not wear a head scarf.