To be sat open mouthed at the Idiocy of Dave Camerons latest headline grabber

[penelopestitsdropped]

Multiculturalism has failed

Now whilst i believe the debate itself has merit ( though think that DC has put a rather disturbing anti islamic slant on it)
I do not think it the wisest day to do so given that there is a planned march by the English Defence League (think BNP with more hair) today

march in Luton

LOTM - you might not have meant to have come across as racist but you did.

Starlight- well done. So what is it your proud of?

Ha! History! My country is also very very rich with history-but I shan't bore you with that. PLease just answer, I have asked several hundred times.

lady - tbh, i don't know if you are muslim or not and tbh, i am not interested, my post wasn't about you, you just chose to make it personal. but i can tell you what is wonderful about the british culture. when i lived in the east london ghetto (i moved out recently) i was so incredibly alone and felt so uncomfortable. but now i have moved to a more old school area where people great you ie some old dear would chat to you in the post office if you were in the queue. there is a real english 'spirit of the blitz' feeling the way english people will look out for you, be there for you, help you, can't explain it although this obviously isn;t and english thing, any country i am sure has this but it is has to expect that sort of kind comfortable treatment when you are living among people you feel are strangers. it is hard to explain, it is a feeling, not something that you can read about in wickipedia. i don't think the english culture is better than anyone elses, your responses seem to imply that english people think their culture is better than say the muslim culture, it is different but if i went to live in dubai i would be covering up and not holding hands in the street etc. when i read about the way some british expats behave i feel angry and ashamed as i think they are disrespectful, they should adapt to the behaviour of the country they have chosen to live. havng said that, i do not think that muslim culture should change but to stop alienating themselves so much and openly looking down on the people whose country they chose to live in

StarLightPrincess - Actually I disagree with you there, Britain has done more harm to nations globally and contributed so much discontent to the world. Contributions are also usually taken from other cultures and recycled as a rebranded british construct.

I don't think foreign people deliberately try to defy the culture- like you said, if you went to Dubai you'd be out of your depths and the same for M.E foreigners here. To go from living at home until you're married to a culture where moving out at 16 is legal, it's a huge culture shock and the majority tend to stick tighter together to avoid losing their culture, and I can't see what's wrong with this and it isn't harming anyone.

I love many things about British life-the fact that the electricity never goes off is a good place to start, the anti-laziness of life, the fact people work a 9-5 and don't slope off for a nap. The stern upper lip is sometimes refreshing when coming from such a laid back culture.

Thank you all for this thread, which is really interesting to me. Coming from a very remote and rural area where there is barely anyone not from the county except a few doctors, I have little direct experience of all these issues. The papers tend to be very polarised. It is interesting how frank a discussion can be when people are basically anonymous.

lady - you see, you have done it again in your thread above, you seem to think it is unique to your culture, whatever that is, to have a close family relatinship,etc etc. this is what i hear constantly about some asian cultures. i am english and have an INCREDIBLY close relationship with my family. i speak to my parents on the phone a good few times each week and go and see them about once every week/two weeks even though they live a long way away. i do not drink or smoke, i dress conservatively, my dd is being brought up conservatively, she is polite, she doesn't drink fruit shoots (!). i waited until i got married in my mid 30's to have a child and as a result am now infertile and cannot have any more children because i wanted to wait until i was married before having children. your attitude towards western women is rank with racism and confirms my original post, you hate us and thus do not mix with us

I don't think DC can really say he is serious about integration whilst there are still state faith (any faith) schools in this country

I have recently moved as well bringnbuy, and it is so refreshing to have your postman/binman/next door neighbour acknowledge you and say hello and smiling at you instead of ignoring you.

Lady- Fair enough, I can't define British culture. But you still come across as racist.

That's a little unfair.

It has the highest rate for teenage pregnancies, that isn't my clouded judgement, that's the truth.

There are many aspects of British life I love and embrace, others I do not.

It isn't a law to like everything a particular country does.

Yes but LOTM, put it into perspective, teenage pregnancies or honour killings? Which is worse? Conservatism is not all that great.

.. RIGHT...

"But you can't tell me what British culture is? You claim to be British and you can't tell me what it is you're so proud about or what is so great-or, to you, what the whole wide world is so desperate to be?"

Let me tell you what our culture is love, take a seat...

Our culture is to be open and free, to choose how we live and how we behave. Of course not everyone behaves as we would wish them too all the time, but we deal with it and try to discourage them.

We care for those that can't provide for themselves, we provide free healthcare to all, education to all too.

If you are a woman, you have the same rights to work as anyone else equal pay for a man working in the same job, you have equal rights in court. Your vote DOES count. You can drive a car, own a house, rent it out.

You can think what you want to, wear what you want to, from a bikini to a burkha.

Our foremothers have been brave, so we don't have to fight for our rights, so we have the right to be treated with respect, so women can go to Uni and get degrees. Our men have been brave, to fight for the rights and freedoms of others, and continue to do so.

You can come to this country, you can live here and you can participate. If you don't like it, you can say so, you can write all about it and you can ultimately leave.

Other cultures don't allow any of that, not even to their own, much less to people who arrived from other places.

You are free to like living here, you are free to hate it, you are free to stay or indeed to go.

We do try broadly to embrace and find out about others culture, we ARE interested in others.

There are many things wrong with our society I am sure, but there are a whole lot of right things too. I am proud to be British, proud to be a British woman and proud to be a British mother. I love my country. it took me living somewhere else to see it, but now I know where I belong.

Many, many people wish to live here, and not only for the benefits and free healthcare. For our culture, our history and our way of life. It won't suit everyone, and it may not be the best in the world, but it is a long way from being the worst.

LadyoftheManor, you haven't said where YOU originally hail from? Please tell us what makes YOU so proud to be from where you are from? What is so great about your culture that you feel so entitled to class swathes of society as hookers?

I've already said what I like about my culture. I didn't disclose the country, but I disclosed the region :o

Thanks, nice to see someone who actually has a list of things they love about their country-all I wanted was it defined.

Please bear in mind, I am also British :o

LittleMiss, other societys do offer those things, not just Britain.

Well we live in the 'ghetto' at the moment and I've never lived anywhere friendlier or more neighbourly. My mum lives in a much more provincial 'pleasant' area and her neighbours are way less community minded. And far more judgey.

I'm not saying it's a bed of roses here... but the city's not all bad.

I'd quietly like to add, that healthcare isn't free...it comes out of my salary too.

My DP grew up in north London on a very nice estate. He grew up there and knows almost everyone. In fact, I cannot remember a time we have walked down the street without him having someone to say hello to. The city can be very nice. His friends are also from all parts of the world as are mine. Actually, apart from one of my DP's best friends and a couple of people we know, the only grouping of people we do not interact with a lot are the English. We tend NOT to be accepted, I even found that at uni. It is as if English people we come across do not know how to interact with us and it puts them out of thier comfort zone. Plus on occassion a little obvious racism. Just putting that out there.

LDN, I know these are not exclusive to Britain, that wasn't the question. The question is what make me proud of my culture/Britain.

NHS is free at point of use. My niece is almost 2, my sister is STILL getting colossal bills from her birthing team and used to spend over $1000 a month in healthcare payments.

LotM, if where you are is about respect, you ought to know that the things you have said here are deeply disrespectful of us and are also disproportionate.

IF you had the guts to identify your country I'm willing to bet many of US could pull it to pieces too, by ignoring the good and accentuating the bad.

But we've all been brought up better than to do that

I know LittleMiss, but you said "Other cultures don't allow any of that, not even to their own, much less to people who arrived from other places."

Was just pointing out that that is a misconception.

I would like to know where LOTM is from too TBH, please enlighten. I have a feeling it is an East African state for some reason.

I think the main problem with this is the culture keeps being discussed a monolithic, never changing...things. No living culture is static - it wasn't that long ago that it was very British for all women, particularly married women, to wear some sort of head covering outside. Now, in some areas it's seen as a treat.

No culture is all wonderful, or all horrible, and right now, I think, British culture is trying to figure out how it going to move forward. A crossroad, which always tend to be socially difficult.

I am an immigrant and my husband is very English (as in traces family line to pre-1700s, and has a family who thinks people who don't drink tea are anti-social). Our household is really neither his culture or mine, it's a home on our values which are a mix of our backgrounds, religious beliefs (we both converted as adults so not part of our backgrounds), and values, but it doesn't look like a traditionally British or American home (in fact I personally avoid American pop culture for my kids like a plague). I don't know a home that does. Yes, there are things from my culture that I think could benefit the UK -- like the mindset that people helping others is normal rather than here where it seems to be that people who want to help are looked at with great suspiscion. Where I am from, it isn't thought odd that there are groups that go into hospitals to talk to patients they don't know just to give them an ear and company. Here, I don't even know if it's legal, as everything to do with helping others comes with forms, checks, and qualifications.

I think the best way for intergration is real acknowledgement. Not tokenism, not 'oh we can't do XYZ or we may offend' pearl clutching, real acknowledgement and discussion. From actual people, not thinktank who think they know. And some encouragement to interact and help other people, rather than a load of forms and red tape.

I meant the freedom of actions thoughts etc. There is free healthcare in Egypt... not that you'd use it out of choice though.

East African? No, it wouldn't be THAT easy LDN...

LittleMissHissyFit - well said!

They are the things that make me proud to live in and contribute to this country, even if I am not british myself.

I'm not East African. No.

I have said the region that should be enough to go on- after all the majority of people believe that all predominately Muslim countries are "all the same" (although I think Afghanistan has far more drug trafficking than my country).

I do think it is important that people who come to this country understand, respect and try to live by these values while they are here - and very important that this is understood before people are allowed to take up british nationality - it is essential for social and national cohesion.