to think that the breastfeeding room is for breastfeeding?

[emsyj]

Today I went into the breastfeeding room at my local John Lewis to find a lady on a prayer mat praying. I was a bit taken aback really and just wondered if I am being unreasonable in thinking this is inappropriate.

The breastfeeding room is generally very well used. I have never been alone in there, and today another lady came in to feed her baby a couple of minutes after I arrived. The room is pretty small - with 7 small tub chairs it is full really, with space for probably one pram/buggy if all the chairs are taken. Often on a Saturday it is standing room only in there. On weekdays there are on average 2-3 women in there feeding when I go in.

The lady praying today had taken up two chairs with her stuff and then laid out her mat on the floor. This didn't leave much space for people who actually wanted to use the facility for its intended purpose. However, I think my main objection to the lady praying is twofold: firstly, I felt a bit uncomfortable whipping my boobs out in front of someone who was actively in prayer. I am not generally bothered about feeding in front of people (I only left the restaurant to feed because DD is now 8 months old and very easily distracted so I wasn't getting anywhere in there) but I did feel inhibited. Secondly, the breastfeeding room is for women who are breastfeeding - surely people should have some respect for that? Maybe I am being a bit precious on this one, but really the facilities for breastfeeding (if you want to feed in private) are very limited and should be reserved for people who really need them.

So, am I being unreasonable then???

I've bfed in my church, sitting right there in the pew, and I'm not the only one. Nobody ever batted an eyelid.

I think if you're a Muslim wishing to pray daily in the UK you get used to doing it wherever you can. The praying woman was probably not expecting to have the room all to herself, and apparently never said Shhhhh or gave anyone a dirty look, so presumably everyone did their own thing and nobody got hurt. The stuff on the chairs was a bit rude but only if other people were hesitant to break into her prayer to ask her to remove her things so that they could sit down, and that didn't happen - I still think the changing room might have been a better choice for her however, because bfing rooms can often have a lot of toddlers in them and it's not fair for their mothers to have to keep the toddlers from disturbing someone praying in there and taking up floor space. It would make someone with a big buggy uncomfortable too, to have to manoeuver past the woman on the floor.

Dayshiftdoris - dd is at the 8 month distractable stage. Am so :) that the next thing is top holding up as you describe.

What I really love about dh is that I asked him his views on this and he said incredulously 'Why isn't there a prayer room in John Lewis?!'

There are laws (esp in my country Scotland, and I believe that they are being implemented in England) to protect breastfeeding mothers.

You cannot legally be asked to stop. You cannot legally be moved to another area.

There are NO similar protections for praying. The woman could have been abused, shouted at, interupted, told to move on etc etc for praying in a public area.

I'm lucky, as a Christian I can pray anywhere as I don't have physical rituals to go through.

The praying lady needs a little bit of space and preferably some running water. I can't imagine she would have been there for hours.

A little empathy for what she is doing, and how she could have been treated elsewhere wouldn't go amiss.

When DS was about 5 or 6 weeks old I went to JL with MIL. It was my first big trip out and it was marvellous to discover the breastfeeding room, as he still took ages to feed and I was still shy about it. When he was older I happily fed in public places, then back to private again when he hit that distractible phase.

These 'oh, women should just get on with it anywhere and not be so silly' type comments are very blinkered and unempathetic. I've got no problem if someone never wants to bf in public, it's their choice. You don't have to strike a political stance all the time. It's more sensible to accept all women are different and have different feelings about drawing attention to their breasts.

And can't you see it's a good thing to have a separate bottle room as this normalises men taking responsibility for looking after their babies?

On the original subject, I totally get what bothered the Op and would probably have felt the same, but reading the thread makes me realise it's a YABU!

Wish I was back at Uni,this would have made a great topic for my dissertation!

I think legal protection is really beside the point here though - it is equally illegal to abuse someone on the grounds of religion, so I don't think the lady in prayer was actually in any more vulnerable a position than a bf lady would be. The law in England and Wales does not set out a specific right to bf - you would need to make out a claim of sex discrimination, just as a person praying would need to make a claim for discrimination on grounds of race or religion.

I don't think I did lack empathy as it happens. And a bf woman is just as much at risk of being abused, shouted at, told to move on etc as a person praying. It has never happened to me, but it is clear from threads on this site and others that women ARE subject to abuse sometimes when bf in public. Just because something is discriminatory and therefore contrary to the law does not stop it happening.

theGrudge, I actually agree with you. It's not really about the rules. It's about the fact that we should understand that is a woman has gone to the trouble of going to the BF room, then she would not feel comfortable with a bottle feeding father in there. It has nothing to do with the fact he is bottle feeding. It's because he is a man and one she doesn't know.

It's similar to the women who always request a female doctor or those who do so when the issue is gyn related. Of course the male doctor is just as competent and will not be looking at her in a sexual way. However, the fact remains that the patient has requested a female GP because it makes her feel more comfortable and at ease. If there is no female GP, she has to do without. But that doesn't mean we should stop allowing women to request a female GP or tell them they are being precious and have to accept a male GP.

We could tell BF mums it's tough; They have to accept bottle feeding fathers in the room. Or we could just agree that like P&T spaces, they're not a legal right but actually they make many peoples lives just that little bit easier. (including the woman who was praying) Where's the harm in that?

YABU The woman obviously didn't mind BFing going on in front of her otherwise she wouldn't have been in there.

And you could ask her to move her stuff if there wasn't enough room.

Ref bottle-feeding fathers, the Parents' Room (it's not called a Breastfeeding Room) at our local John Lewis has a walled-off bit at one end where you can breastfeed in private, there's still plenty of room for anyone to do nappy changing or sit and bottle-feed. And it has a large toilet that you can go in with your pram/buggy so you can have a pee with the door closed. It's very well designed.

What about muslim breastfeeders?

I am not muslim (or a shy bfer) but I get narked by men in the JL bf room- some women prefer privacy, some babies are buggers to latch on (my DC2 had tonguetie, though tbh we didn't go out much until it was snipped), some babies gaze around and pull off the breast the whole time (though tbf that was mainly only in JL as they were both obsessed with the doggy wallpaper!)

Men have no need to be in bf area, and IME mostly they were resting their poor tired little feet from shopping while their DP fed baby

I agree with the old fashioned powder room suggestion as well - lovely great big carpeted rooms with big chairs and sofas and loos and sinks but a women-only space for doing women-only things in. Lovely.

YABU

The best place to breastfeed in John Lewis....? The furniture department. Pick a sofa and away you go. That's where I fed all my babies when out shopping.

What about Muslim breastfeeders? I don't get what you're driving at there
a bf mum is a bf mum surely?

So women who are not confident enough to feed in public should not go out of the house, for weeks on end?

How supportive.

I agree with poster who said bf is not a political statement. We dont all need to proudly bf anywhere and everywhere. Its a personal choice and i find it really offensive that just because at 19 years of age i wasnt that confident at bf in public some of you would sneer at me.

I personally would be put out if i went into a bf room and a man/men were in there. Of course i wouldnt feel able to say anything anyway - another reason for you to sneer and think im pathetic.

Everyone is different. Bully for those that dont give a shit - i wish i could be more like you.

OP, i dont think yabu as such. That would be the last thing you would be expecting to find and i understand that you may have found it awkard. You are allowed an opinion.

I also however dont think the woman praying was bu, as she went into an empty room and probably thought that she could be finished before it became full?

If i was somewhere that had a special purpose and i was doing some thing else in there when it was empty, and some one came in to do the special purpose - i would offer to leave - takes some akwardness away and shows some understanding imo.

Although i do appreciate if you were praying in depth you may not notice?

YABU.

I really don't see the problem.

Having said that, I find the idea of a breastfeeding room pretty abhorent. A quiet space for feeding babies is great, but calling it a breastfeeding room just panders to the notion that BF-ing should be done in private.

And a bf woman is just as much at risk of being abused, shouted at, told to move on etc as a person praying.

I thoroughy disagree with that statement.

So this is a room just for breastfeeding we're talking about? Not the Parent's Room in the baby and children department?

Anyway, I can't think of two people less likely to interfere with each other's business. One is quietly praying, the other is quietly feeding her baby. Where's the problem?

The layout of the parents' room, with separate areas for changing, bottle-feeding and breastfeeding is set out in some detail in earlier posts.

Also I think I have made clear (with the help of other posters, whose views have clarified in my own mind why I felt uncomfortable) that the 'problem' was that I felt I was intruding on somebody's quiet prayer time, particularly as the room is small and the lady was taking up quite a bit of the limited space. I have been interested to learn of the significance of bf to Muslims and see that it was wrong to feel that feeding whilst the lady prayed was a bit disrespectful.

surely the whole purpose of a breastfeeding room is for breastfeeding mums to have somewhere to go to to quietly feed their baby without feeling awkward or uncomfortable...regardless of whether they are shy BFs or their babies object to being fed in a busy coffee shop.
Im more than happy to BF my DD in any spot, but youve got to appreciate other mums and babies needs and there are times when you need that protected space.
Have been v interested to find out more about BF and religion through these posts and also equally shocked at some of the negative comments made re BF
On a seperate note, a big company like JL in a newly designed building should have a specific praying area for people to use.

Or here's a controversial view. If prayer times are fixed, then plan your shopping around them rather than expecting other people to shuffle aorund your stuff and try to keep their babies and toddlers quiet and reined in.

I don't think this woman thought the consequences of her actions through at all, tbh.

boffinmum - at a certain point in the babies life you could say the same of bf though couldnt you...that you knew when you needed to feed and could avoid those times if you so wished.

And cantstop - a prayer room would be nice but the woman still wouldnt be able to use it with men.

bf is really a lot more unpredictable IMO, so I think it's not as easy to seek to regulate it. Prayer times are fixed very rigidly, however, so I come again to the fact that this needs to be factored in, and if you know you will need to pray whilst out, then it's worth organising a better arrangement for yourself.

Boffin I'm going to reiterate what I said earlier. She may or may not have intended to be out and about during prayer time. The fact is that she may have had the permission of the store to use this room. BF mothers have no right to demand that they are the only ones to use a room, it is nice when there is one available but it is not a BF room, it is simply a spare room in a shop that BF mothers can use, along with anyone else management allows. We do not even know that she had just 'let herself in' so asking whether she was in the right to be there is not a valid question.

OP has admitted that is was her own feeling of being uncomfortable that was the issue, not the fact that another woman who needed the room was using it in a way which didn't disturb her.

I think it sounds as though she rather took over the room though, in this instance, with stuff all over chairs and the like. What did she think other people were going to do?

I don't see the problem with the woman praying as long as she didn't stop you breastfeeding. I posted a while ago that my DH had sat in a breastfeeding room with because i get panic attacks out. The response i got made me realise i was probably pissing people off by doing that, I tried going alone the next time but had to run out crying after a few minutes in a panic (stupid). We sat in the bottle-feeding area where a woman had a go at me for "rubbing her nose in" my breastfeeding ( sounds interesting!) .
I only go out infrequently with the amount of stress it causes me but when i do I feed formula now.

I bet if the room was empty and a BF mother went in there, she might put some stuff on a chair next to her. I guess, although correct me if I'm wrong, that it is possible to move stuff?