in thinking my rules for dd are fair and reasonable

[Cleofartra]

following on from 'at the end of my tether' thread the other day, have booked myself and dd a double appointment to see gp about her sleep and emotional issues.

Have also spoken to the teacher who's in charge of pastoral care at the school who agrees that dd needs counselling and maybe to see the ed. psyche.

I'm now in the position of needing to set some very clear boundaries (or re-establish them - they were there before but weren't being properly adhered to) so have typed up a list of 'rules' which I'm going to laminate and stick on the fridge. I want dd to be very clear about what we expect from her in terms of behaviour.

Can you cast your eyes down it and say if you think I'm being over prescriptive. The reason I've picked on these particular things is because these are things we currently have issues with at home with dd.

Get up within ten minutes of being called in the morning and without being rude.
Shoes, books, homework and uniform put ready the night before.
All homework printed out and in bag the night before it?s due to be handed in.
Eat breakfast or take it with you.
Either make your own packed lunch or take the one which is prepared for you without complaining.
Behave properly in lessons. Write your homework down.
Get back from school by 3.30 if you don?t have an after school club or detention.
Hang your blazer and coat up, put your bag in your room and your shoes on the shoe rack.
One hour of academic work to be done every night - not in front of the television. No emailing or surfing the internet while doing schoolwork. If you haven?t been set an hour?s homework I will give you work to do.
During the week schoolwork done before television or surfing the internet.
Twenty minutes piano practice every day including at weekends.
When mum and dad say ?no?, don?t keep asking ? persistent and aggressive demands constitute harassment and are not acceptable.
No name-calling or swearing.
Respect your and our home and possessions ? any deliberate breakages or wilful damage will have to be paid for from your pocket money.
Don?t take food without asking.
No rudeness and complaining about meals. If you don?t want what?s on offer then politely decline and help yourself to fruit and toast instead.
Keep your hands and feet to yourself ? no pushing, slapping or pulling at people?s clothes.
Bed time is at 9pm during the week. Main light off 9.30pm. At the weekend you can go to bed an hour later.

Ok, so those are everything you want her to do.. what is she allowed to do?

She is your daughter, not your prisoner. That is one fecking long list of rules.

I think one of them is bloody unfair.

If you haven?t been set an hour?s homework I will give you work to do.

ffs.. thats just unreasonable.

Not sure how old dd is?

Just wonder if these are too many rules - could they be condensed down?

I agree with ground rules but I just wonder if this is too much of a lecture for her?

I think that in awfully long list if I remember is dd 11?

How old is she? 11 rings a bell? Agree with bubble on the homework and think the asking for food bit is a little weird, but I could be unusual in that.

How hard do you need to clamp? Tbh I think the list looks worse than it us ad much is just common sense, I.e hanging coat up etc.

Hiya

I know your having a hard time but I think if you put that list in front of her you will just cause more problems. Pick five or six of the most absolutely key i.e. no kicking or slapping and get her to agree to it, then follow it up with a few things that you are really happy for her to do or rewards for keeping to the house rules.

It's all very "don't" - even if the rule is a "do". I'd be inclined to add some sort of reward into things so there's a clear incentive. Otherwise I can see this list being the perfect catalyst for some serious rioting.

I wouldn't be setting extra work if she hasn't got homework.
Does your daughter want to learn piano if no then i would drop that.
Your rules only say homework before tv and internet. Does this mean she has to come in and get straight on with homework or can she have a break doing something else before getting the books out?

wow

Yes, it's over prescriptive, to put it mildly.

Frankly I'd be concentrating on the important things like the hitting and not having a 'rule' for putting her shoes away.

I haven't read your other thread but there doesn't sound like a lot of love going around.

This is interesting. All those are things I would and do expect of my 10 and 9yo dds, except for the hour's homework a night (they are at primary and get an hour a week), the parental homework extras, and the piano playing (for me that would depend how keen the dd was to learn the piano).

So the "rules" themselves don't seem that draconian to me.
But it does look very long and intransigent, set down like that.

You should have a general rule of no rudeness, with sanction. banging on about it on every line is OTT.

Rule for everybody. Politeness.

No violence.

Be responsible for getting up on time

Be responsible for getting uniform ready for next day.

Do homework after snack but before play.

Bedtime rules are....

The rest is just draconian. A few days of ignoring whinges about packed lunch and having nothing to take in should sort that out.

Get school on board about the lunch thing, tho.

And clear sanctions for not abiding by the rules.

Bloody hell. Are you going to shave her head and make her wee in a bucket too?

i wouldnt force her to do the piano at weekend tbh. it will just put her off it and she will rebel big time in a few years. its a long list. a bit much tbh if shes only 11

Taking food without asking? my ds is allowed to eat whatever he wants, and he generally still eats his dinner.

Though we have very little crap in the house. So toast and chocolate milk after school seems fine to me.

She's 11.

"Ok, so those are everything you want her to do.. what is she allowed to do?"

When she's not screaming abuse at me, refusing to get up in the mornings or go to bed at night, screaming at and pushing her 5 yr old s/n db, grafitting stupid slogans on her freshly painted bedroom walls, refusing to do homework, eat anything I've cooked, or take the packed lunch I've prepared for her (rather stop and buy fried chicken and cans of coke on the way home from school) she's allowed to do all sorts of things.

In the past month she's had friends over several times, including a sleepover, a trip to a west end show, shopping trips, and been to see JLS. She sits up and watches tv with me and dh most nights for an hour after her brothers have gone to bed, usually deciding what we're all watching (so poor dh and I end up being forced to sit through 'Snog, Marry, Avoid' and Supernanny on a regular basis). DH and I have taken her out on her own for meals. She has her own lap-top. She spends an hour or so on the phone to her friends and cousins every night. Believe me - she's not a deprived, repressed child.

and this: persistent and aggressive demands constitute harassment and are not acceptable.

just sounds a bit dictorial. all kids try it oon and ask again

Don?t take food without asking.
and
No rudeness and complaining about meals. If you don?t want what?s on offer then politely decline and help yourself to fruit and toast instead.

I think those two could be confusing.

But I do think you're being a bit harsh, how about rather than jusy a list of don'ts, why not have a reward system ie every hour of home work will be rewarded with 30 mins TV/Internet Access?

Get back from school by 3.30 if you don?t have an after school club or detention

Seems to assume that she will have detention, how about bonus pocket money for not getting any detention in a month?

A lot of that could be summed up in "we respect each other, and the house in which we live, and don't swear or use rudeness".

Can you condense the list? Quite a few are rules are basically 'show respect for those around you and lose the attitude'.
If you keep it simple you can just state the rule easily in many contexts.

Agree with loosing up on the piano bit- my parents did this( 45 mins) and it put me right off.

The food thing I can sort of understand.

I was never allowed to help myself to whatever I wanted. For one, my mum couldnt afford it. We ate at mealtimes. Which we ate and appreciated because we were hungry.

I think a lot of parents who struggle to get their kids to eat meals should look at what the kids eat as snacks or if they are filling up with drinks, meaning they arent really hungry at proper mealtimes.

But, I think that to get some results out of that list, you have to offer some sort of incentives.. rather than one enormous list of negative rules.

You're setting yourself up for a fall there with those rules I think!!

Puberty will hit soon, and boundaries will be pushed. Pick your battles...... I'm going through a tough time with my teens, you really do need to lighten up a bit.

Aren't most of those things normal everyday stuff?

she's done all that in the past MONTH?? flippin' heck!

erm, she sounds spoilt if you ask me....sorry!

(not read the other thread...)

(rather stop and buy fried chicken and cans of coke on the way home from school)

where is she getting the money from to enable her to do that?

she wont be wanting to eat your meals if she has stuffed herself already with shite..

"Taking food without asking? my ds is allowed to eat whatever he wants, and he generally still eats his dinner"

DD will eat her way through an entire round of Brie and 300 grams of chorizo, and leave the wrappers in the fridge. The only thing she wants to eat at the moment are sausages, cheese, chocolate, preserved meat products, plastic bread and sweets. She used to eat anything. She's not fussy, she's just sees that refusing to eat food I've cooked as a way of asserting her independence. Stuffing high calorie food in between meals helps her say 'no' to anything I've cooked.