To tell my nanny she can't take days of for her wedding.

[Foreverondiet]

Have had same nanny for several years and each year she does some sort of retreat thing in June, 2 weeks. She is allowed 2 weeks holiday when she chooses and the rest when we choose (usually another 4 weeks worth).

Anyway she tells me she is getting married.... I think nothing of it until cleaner says did you know it was in September this year. I ask the nanny and she said, yes she was thinking she's take some unpaid leave. Try to push how much she needs, she wants another couple of weeks. I suggested maybe she wouldn't do the retreat this year but she was almost in tears and said she couldn't believe I wouldn't give her time of for getting married (she's going back home to eastern Europe to get married).

I asked her why she thought it would be ok, as I don't have enough holiday to cover it because we have already committed to go away with DH's parents. And yes I can take unpaid parental leave but this would be very expensive, and leave my boss being a bit annoyed with me.

The reason we have a nanny is that I have 3 DC, aged 4,7 and 9 months and its the only way I can work (full day nursery/childminder for baby plus after school would cost almost the same and this way she looks after older DC if they are ill or during school holidays).

Her wedding is on a Saturday and she works for me Mon/Tues and Thurs so its not as if she HAS to take time off, and if it really was that important to her why does she not cancel the retreat?

'In terms of nanny being ill, she was ill for more than a week in December, DH and I used up holiday.'

Very foolish of you, given that you knew the nanny was engaged. Do you really have no contingency plans at all for nanny emergencies? The nanny must be a spectacularly reliable employee if you've never had to develop a relationship with a temp agency up to now.

And apparently there is family somewhere not too far off to whom you can turn and they will probably return the favour your nanny did for them at your behest (was she paid extra for the extra toddler who doesn't sleep during the day? A non-sleeping 18 month old can be a demon to look after.) So what's the problem here?

Some other thoughts: the cleaner might have her own agenda in squealing on the nanny. In my limited experience, domestic staff seem to like to undermine each other with the boss.

The other possibility, that others have pointed out, is that the nanny did not seriously plan to stick around for much longer whether before or after the wedding. Hence, she did not agree dates in advance with the OP's needs in mind.

If that is the case, then putting in place a replacement ahead of time might not be such a bad idea.

In this case it doesn't really help at all to make a call about who is being the most unreasonable- at the end of the day you need to find a solution. FWIW- yes, she should have arranged her holidays around the wedding, she shouldn't expect extra time off as well as the agreed fortnight of her choice. On the other hand, although you are her employer there is a bit more to it than a normal employer/ employee relationship- I'd imagine she would be difficult to replace, and she is presumably valued and trusted, so it's probably worth you conceding on this one. It's not going to be an ongoing issue- though you need to make it clear that you can't allow a similar situation to develop again, eg for weddings of other family members. But for her own wedding, I think you need to be gracious about it, let her have the time, and wish her well. Her role in your family life is too important to allow it to be soured by this issue- and one day you might well need her to help you out in a situation not foreseen by the contract.

Realistically, you are going to have to get an alternative nanny in- would you be able to negotiate a good rate with an agency given the notice period? Or do you and /or your nanny know any other nannies that could do a nanny share/ holiday swap or something to cover that time?

I think the same as blueshoes

The only reason I can think of for someone to behave so obnoxiously to the person who employs them is because they don't give a fuck about that person or the job they are paid to do.

She's planning to leave between the time she goes on the retreat and the time of her wedding.

That's why she was crying about having to miss the retreat - because her plan is to go on the retreat so she can take all her annual leave before she resigns.

I can't believe someone who's been with a family for so long would be so underhanded and unreasonable.

Surely the best solution is to admit that the relationship here has broken down and let the nanny go and have as much time off unpaid as she pleases and employ someone who takes their responsibilities seriously?

Obnoxious? Unreasonable? Devious? Underhanded? We are talking about a nanny who is asking for 6 days unpaid leave to get married.

'The relationship'?
The employer has studiously avoided paying any notice to the employee's life and plans and pays no more attention to the announcement of her engagement than she would to a fly buzzing about its business, and there's a 'relationship' here that has 'broken down'

A woman who has taken care of the children for 6 years so reliably that the employer doesn't know there are temp agencies out there 'doesn't take her responsibilities seriously?'

On what planet?

We are talking about a nanny who has not asked for unpaid leave to get married, we are talking about one who had made arrangements on the assumption that she would be able to take additional leave, who didn't tell her employer about her plans but let her hear it through gossip.

A nanny who is refusing to use her annual leave for her wedding, and trying to emotionally blackmail her employer into granting additional leave despite knowing how much inconvenience this will cause for her employer.

If you work in childcare you know people rely on you. If you have a job you take seriously where other people rely on you you don't make secret plans to be abroad when they expect you to be at work.

There is no job I can think of where this kind of behaviour would be tolerated.

The sneakiness in arranging time off outside her contract without discussion, the intransigence of refusing to use her annual leave for her wedding, the ugly manipulativeness of pretending that this is about a mean boss refusing to give her time off for her wedding.

She sounds awful to me. Everything about the way she had acted makes her sound untrustworthy, self-obsessed and manipulative.

"Boo hoo poor me, my boss expects me to use annual leave for my wedding. The imposition!"

I'm amazed at the number of people who are still harping on about how unfair it is that the nanny only gets to choose when she has two weeks of her holidays. Which parts of "the nanny then gets to choose when her employers have two weeks of their holidays" do you not understand??

And considering all the abuse and snidey comments the OP has gotten, I'm not surprised she didn't come back to the thread (unless she has by now and I missed it).

It's a given the nanny handled this badly. The thing to do now is to help the OP find a way to compromise so the nanny gets to have time off for her wedding, and the OP has her child care covered without undue disruption to her children. Which should be the first priority.

I'm just curious on one point, and I do hope the OP comes back and finds the question and answers this - what are the nanny's plans after the wedding? If she's from Eastern Europe, and is getting married there, and (presumably, unless I've missed the answer to this) her fiance lives there (as opposed to being from there and now living in UK), will the nanny be staying in the UK in the hope of importing her then-DH, or will she eventually be leaving the UK to go back to EE to be with her DH? Which would leave the OP in the position of having to find another nanny.

Apologies if this concern has been raised already. I tried to catch up this afternoon while DS napped but didn't get a chance to post, and have now not read back, only wanted to post this question.

She didn't 'let her hear it through gossip'. How did the nanny have any control over the loose tongue of the cleaner? The cleaner may have been told the morning she spilled the beans.

She is refusing to use half her annual leave for the wedding, and probably has good reasons for choosing the date she has chosen, not least of which may be the date the groom can get time off his work. It takes two to get married. The rest of her annual leave is dictated by the family.

I would have slapped the OP in the face if she had tried to put the kibosh on my wedding plans after six years of solid service, taking care of the children since they were babies, wiping bums and snotty noses and taking care of them well and sick - right after I had shoved a mop up some orifice of the cleaner that is. And yes, I would have cried at the horrible reaction my news received after those six years. Not to emotionally blackmail but out of sheer disbelief that this woman could be so ridiculously mean, so petty, so willing to figuratively slap me in the face after doing so much for her career prospects and her family, for so long.

Read the thread again and you will find plenty of people who took time off for their weddings with their employers' blessing.

The fact that this whole incident comes as such a shock to the OP shows that this nanny has never done such a thing before. She apparently has never requested any time off outside of the two weeks she gets to choose and there has been a time the OP reported when she was sick. Otherwise the OP wouldn't have posted in such a state of horror.

Now she is untrustworthy, scheming to leave the OP high and dry once married, never planning to come back after her wedding, despite the fact that her future H lives in the UK with her now and presumably will continue to do so and she will presumably have the same need for an income that she does now. This woman from Hungary/ Slovakia is being calumnied by those who darkly predict she will do a runner.

I don't blame her if she hands in her notice, but to assume just because the cleaner jumped the gun and mentioned the wedding plans that the nanny had no intention of doing so and will quietly disappear into darkest Slovakia never to be heard of again is horribly judgemental and it flies in the face of everything even the OP has said about this employee, who has been loyal for six years, presumably fine with the children or no-one would be worried about how the children would survive without her, and presumably very reliable or the OP would know the ropes and have the number of the local temp agency on speed dial.

Well she is an employee. Would an employer in the workplace give her that leave? Would they inconvenience themselves by covering for staff wanting to take normal leave + unpaid leave? They wouldnt, would they? she'd have to use her annual leave. As if an 'office' employer would say 'oh we love you, youve been here for years you go off and take unpaid leave, no need to cancel any current arrangements tho'. I guess theyd congratulate you on your wedding tho, but not offer any extras. Or is this somehow being viewed differently just because she is a nanny, employed by a woman? or this is being seen as an 'in house' job so things should be more 'relaxed'. In the real world a job is a job..is a job. Most of us dont like it, but we tend to have to stick to our contracts.

Just read the first page, but it seems like a lot of people just read the word 'Nanny' and jumped to the conclusion that the OP is a cow!

READ the OP - the Nanny already gets EIGHT WEEKS a year paid leave (two for retreat, two when she wants, four that fit around her employers) and now she wants ANOTHER couple of weeks on top (albeit unpaid) to get married.

Does anyone else here get eight weeks leave a year? If you did, would your boss let you take another couple off - even unpaid - if it would cause massive expense and inconvenience to everyone else in the office?

When I got married, I had to book the time off as part of my annual leave and I still got loads of grief and had to organise my own cover. Why is it different for nannies?

Have to agree that the OP is NBU.

You don't book your entire wedding for a specific date and then approach your employer about unpaid leave. You ask first because- duh- the employer might say no and is quite within their right to do so.

I took 3 weeks holiday when I got married and that was only possible at a certain time of the year- it also meant i then only had 7 days left for the rest of the year but that's just how it goes.

The nanny already gets 6 or 8 weeks paid holiday a year (not quite sure which) , which is a lot more than most people. Many people in many jobs also have some restrictions on when they can take leave (I used to be in a job when there was NO holiday at all- "don't even ask"- between Jan 1 and Apr 15th) so these sort of restrictions aren't exactly unusual.

The OP has created employment for at least two people(nanny and cleaner). OP no doubt has a well paid job and is paying large amounts of tax plus tax and NI for her employees. Thats three people in jobs.

The nanny has worked for OP for several years so knows the holiday entitlement, which is very good. why is this any different from other employment?

some of you on here are very short sighted.

Dipped in and out of this and my conclusion is

''the nanny don't really care for the OP and the OP don't really care for the nanny,''

They both deserve each other.

By the way this is really like any other employer/employee relationship.

She could have avoided her boss hearing about her plans on the grapevine by not talking about them publicly before she had requested leave. That's how you stop people finding out about things through gossip - don't natter away to all and sundry before you've had the decency to to inform people who are materially affected by your plans.

Most employes who get married take some or all of their annual leave as time off. That's totally normal and expected.

If you would hit your boss for asking why you couldn't arrange your wedding within your normal leave year, as most people do, then you have major self-control issues and are unemployable.

YABU and selfish - oh, poor you, you will have to employ someone else for that time, plenty of nanny agencies out there you know. Christ on a bike - all those posters going on about employers having the right to dictate when someone can take a holiday or not. Yes, in the sort of work situations where cover has to be allocated etc, then there is possibly limted flexibility, but this is a person you have looking after your family, so i would have hoped, actually felt some sort of empathy with. I certainly cuoldnt have someone i couldnt give a stuff about looking after my children. The selfishness of some people never ceases to astound me quite frankly - here, have a packet of market chavvy [biscuits]

@ "The OP has created employment for at least two people(nanny and cleaner). "

Is that what the rich tell themselves these days. "The OP is rich enough not to have to do the shit work herself" is more apt

totally agree sakura - that is spot on

This nanny seems to get more and more holiday with every post!

Would you prefer this nanny and cleaner to have no job Sakura? I am asking because I did not think about that employment thing but indeed the alternative to OP giving a job to these two women is them finding a hjob somewhere else with equally wealthy people or them not having the job they need.

I also think the OP is NBU. The nanny DID "let the OP find out through gossip". The nanny could have prevented that situation by not gossiping. If you need to ask a special favour from your employer like this, you make sure your boss is the first person you tell at your workplace.

And to all those people who say " ooh, the nanny was right not to come to the OP as she must be nervous of the OP as OP is scary", well, the OP is cheesed off now, yes. Of course she is.

The OP sound like a pretty good boss to me. She gives her nanny extra leave each year on top of her contractual entitlement and the nanny likes the job enough to have stuck around for six years. She even came back after a year working for someone else.

And a degree of romanticism is creeping in too. As soon as Eastern Europe was mentioned, people started talking about the nanny's difficulties in organizing a wedding around the harvest, presumably imagining a rural village wedding with hay wagons, horses and the whole cast of Pan Tadeusz dressed in braids line-dancing through the ceremony. Come on! The OP has said that it is a child-free wedding with 50 of her mates. It's not subject to extra difficulties that seem to have been thought up to reinforce the idea of the nanny as a maiden in distress.

I also think the OP may have to just suck up all the extra expenses of agency nannies or losing her own pay to cover, plus the disruption to her children if she wants to keep the nanny, but it's pretty understandable that she isn't leaping for joy about having this sprung on her.

Oh FGS. The nanny gets 4 weeks holiday. Two of her choosing, 2 of the OP choosing, plus bank holidays!!!!!

If she got 6 or 8 weeks this thread wouldn't exist as there wouldn't be a problem.

I would also like to hear what the OP has decided to do. Hopefully after nearly 1000 posts with the majority saying YABU, she would do the right thing.

So now a woman who employs another woman to look after her children while she works is "rich enough not to have to do the shitwork"?

Lovely.

I thought you were a feminist?

Your argument implies
a. that looking after children and keeping the house clean is shitwork
b. that women should do their own "shitwork" rather than paying other people to do it so they can work outside the home

the sense that this woman is to be pitied and patronised is coming from the people who think she should be treated like a charity case rather than an adult woman with responsibilities to her employer.

Pmsl @ lisi and the harvest wedding

absolutely

she's not just from Eastern Europe, she's also here from the middle ages :o

i can't believe you are taking the op seriously, especially as she is long gone, i like the start of the thread though, very funny...